horrible KK spot 200BB deep.. - Page 2

MasterLJ · #11 03-29-2007, 06:06 PM

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c/r AI.

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QFT. He has QQ so often here it's funny.

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That was my thinking , CRAI he had 999 of course

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That should have just made you believe that your call was a very good one.

DaCooler · #12 03-29-2007, 06:07 PM

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c/r AI.

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QFT. He has QQ so often here it's funny.

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That was my thinking , CRAI he had 999 of course

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That should have just made you believe that your call was a very good one.

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lol

pyedog · #13 03-29-2007, 06:18 PM

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c/r AI.

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QFT. He has QQ so often here it's funny.

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That was my thinking , CRAI he had 999 of course

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That should have just made you believe that your call was a very good one.

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I don't understand. What call was a good one? Did you mean to say that this showed that his preflop call with 99 was a good one?

MasterLJ · #14 03-29-2007, 06:19 PM

No... it means his range is much larger than AA. This is a profitable call/CRAI long term.

morphball · #15 03-29-2007, 06:28 PM

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No... it means his range is much larger than AA. This is a profitable call/CRAI long term.

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If you are going to get it all-in on boards without an Ace, maybe you should think twice about giving set odds, CRAI is pure spew here...DUCY?

MasterLJ · #16 03-29-2007, 06:31 PM

We are OOP and there are a ton of cards to come that will make us want to muck, even getting ridiculous odds. If you aren't CRAI here, you fold. Calling is bad.

pyedog · #17 03-29-2007, 06:36 PM

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No... it means his range is much larger than AA. This is a profitable call/CRAI long term.

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Okay, I was just confused because you said his call was a good one when in fact he pushed the turn. But you just meant it was good that he didn't fold.

However, we don't know for sure that this player would have played TT/JJ like this. He might have folded to the big flop CB in a 3-way pot. Or else he might have checked behind with those on the turn.

Some stats would help here. But if he's so tight passive that his range is QQ/AA/set/flush then it would be right to fold.

For example if this board was 8-high he probably wouldn't have played his nines so strongly on the turn. So I don't think the fact that he has a middle pair alone justifies the turn push.

bilbo-san · #18 03-29-2007, 06:52 PM

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No... it means his range is much larger than AA. This is a profitable call/CRAI long term.

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If you are going to get it all-in on boards without an Ace, maybe you should think twice about giving set odds, CRAI is pure spew here...DUCY?

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Lol, no.

If tagtards want to cold-call 3-bets thinking they have implied odds against me just because we are 200bbs deep, they are in for some serious -EV hurt. I could have 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here and cold calling my 3-bet with a hand like 99 and folding non-set flops is so painfully [censored] bad poker against me that it is silly.

So, sure, if I see some guy has a history of trying to set mine in spots like this, we'll play a small pot.

But the vast majority of the time, if you are going to give me action on my 3bet preflop, you suck terribly if you're just set-mining. Which means, you've got to pay off a significant amount vs. AA/KK sometimes.

MTSuper7 · #19 03-29-2007, 06:57 PM

FWIW - I like leading the turn in this spot. If he calls or raises, you pretty much know you're done. By checking, you open the door for him to bet a wider range of hands, making it very difficult to play the rest of the hand.

morphball · #20 03-29-2007, 07:02 PM

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We are OOP and there are a ton of cards to come that will make us want to muck, even getting ridiculous odds. If you aren't CRAI here, you fold. Calling is bad.

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You have a two options on the turn. Bet/fold (or bet and then check/fold the river), or check/fold (You could call a small bet since you have, I suppose, but that didn't play.) CRAI is suicide.

An obvious flush draw and a not so obvious str8 draw just got there. Villian cold-called the flop c-bet. That means he has a draw or a set a lot (He wouldn't raise a set because CO is short and your 3-bet means you have at most 3 flush drawing hands, but probably only 2 (AQc & AKc), versus 12 to 18 overpairs. In villian's mind, you have 2-3 outs the vast majority of the time.) Hoping to see TT-QQ is fishy, and you're too deep for that crap. Putting a lot of money in the pot means if you get called you will lose it. Even if you think you have the best hand, you should fold to any real bet because of reverse implied odds.