50 - odd spot with AQ (TPTK=push/fold?)

[CanYouCallThis]

I'm wondering, since none of you prefer to fold preflop, what flop WOULD you like to get here? The only flops you are gonna like are QQx and TJKr. Pretty slim chance of that happening, can't see you getting 1/6 there.

Any other flop you fold it, as I understand. Even on a drawheavy board with TPTK you rather C/F then bet out to protect your hand from draws.

If you don't want to play these flops, why call preflop anyway?

Just wondering, cause with this read on villain I have nearly always folded preflop whilst being OoP. I would even fold AK there probably, since your respect for him puts him on a 3bet range AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK.

Or is the most important issue here the call from villain 2? I understand it gives you better odds, and relatively you are IP, but I still prefer folding over calling...

Please enlighten me. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Split Suit]

a bare Q flop is much better here. Q85r is nice. i can b/f i need to there. this board is very put together, and all i beat is AK/TT. how r u not seeing this board texture? (i mean i come from an Omaha background, but srsly, is this not obvious?)

[Genz]

The preflop call is marginal, because you are sandwiched between two aggressive players while you know that the solid one certainly has a very decent hand and the other one will maneuver you into sticky situations because he likes to shove so much. The hand isn't suited so you can't expect to play a big flushdraw. People tend to get married to AK, AQ preflop just as they get married to AA, KK postflop. I don't think a fold is terrible here, because of the problems you can expect to face postflop. But the pot is pretty big and you can be sure to win some money if you hit hard. But I'd rather have a small or medium PP here.
And another point: even if the solid player's reraising range is only AA, KK, AK, he can have AA in three ways, KK in 6 ways and AK in twelve ways. So he is more likely to have AK than AA if he reraises with all of them. But with AK he is now only drawing to 3 outs. So OP should actually NOT want to push him off of it since he might stack him when an A comes. When his read on the lag is right on, he doesn't have much either. So OP can call and reevaluate on the turn here, since his hand has more than enough equity against both villains' ranges.

[tw0please]

We call not because we think we have 1/6 chance of flopping the nuts or close to it; we call because we have top pair outs against QQ, KK, AK as well as the chance of flopping 2 pair, trips, or a broadway straight and most importantly when we DO flop a monster (2pair+) we are probably stacking one or both of these villains. Folding pf for 6 BB when our AQo has 24.4% equity against a range of QQ+/AK and when a donk is in the hand is burning money.

Also, I agree with Genz on the flop play, I like a call here as well simply because we are ahead a good % of the time and we are getting great pot odds.

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, folding AQ here w/o a bet is a pretty weak line in my opinion. AQ hitting Q high flop is as good as it gets. Just throw 11 in the pot and it makes our life a lot easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that c/f TPTK here is a very weak line...but i think it might b best (and obviously if i knew what was best, i wudnt b posting it here). however, if we CBet, we cant stand any heat on a raise (from either player really), and are also in a really odd spot if we get flat called by TAGgro (which allows Spew to come along with great odds).

just things to keep in mind

[Genz]

And with reevaluation in meant: we need to think about TAG's range on the turn if he bets again. Will he 2barrel into 2 players with AK only? Probably not. Se he is more likely to have AA, KK, QQ and us in very bad shape. And we need to look at the turn card and LAG obv.

I think a c/c on the flop is good, because this is probably one of these spots where you can really say "only better hands will call", as AK is the only worse hand that he is likely to have and we don't want to push out that exact one hand.

the LAG in the hand makes things a little more difficult. But he didn't c/r so we are probably way ahead of him, too, unless he just started slowplaying sets or 2pairs...

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]

push or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you push:If you think TAG 3bets something decent, TT-AA, AK, maybe AQ, you are ahead of AK and TT, and when he calls he probably does not have AK, AQ or TT. If he folds you win $37 and if he calls you lose $48. This is assuming Spewtank folds and not estimating equity of suckouts. I wonder how much this simplification cripples the calculations...?

AA x 3 = -144
KK x 6 = -288
QQ x 1 = -48
JJ x 3 = -144
TT x 6 = +222
AK x 12 = +444
AQ x 6 = +222
Total +264 if the numbers were correct, so you would make 7 dollas more by pushing than folding. But if you take TT and AQ out of his 3betting range, you are getting killed when you push.

In real life spewtard calls your push with AT and hits his straight, naturally.

[jk1986]

Fold pre- calling his 3bet with 67s would be better (but i still wouldn't do it). Fact is you catch a great flop and still don't know where you stand.

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold pre- calling his 3bet with 67s would be better (but i still wouldn't do it). Fact is you catch a great flop and still don't know where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i catch on OK flop. the texture is all bad. and i dont think AQ is in villians 3b range pf...does that change anything for anyone?

[hunt1897]

Look at your OP, think, what would a tag re-raise with, what does he have, if you think about it, pre-flop fold is easy with AQ. As Played, Push.