50 - odd spot with AQ (TPTK=push/fold?)

Split Suit · #1 03-29-2007, 02:50 AM

this hand kinda put me in an odd spot. it was towards the end of my session, so i had played about 200 hands with both villians.

SpewTank - 48/10/6 over 200, likes to push and PSB all the time. calling is usually draw, weak pair. plays sillier in HU pots as opposed to multiway

TAGgro - 21/11/3.5 over 200. hasnt 3b pf too often, and i have to respect for something decent. im not sure if a push will fold out AA/KK, but surely folds out AK.

Myself - running 23/18/4. i dont think ive done anything silly on this table. mostly pretty tight due to being card dead

push or fold? (and i dont think anyone will say call...but if they do, plz heavily explain why)

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.25/$0.50 Blinds
6 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter

Stack Sizes
SB: $39.75
SpewTank: $43.05
UTG: $44
Hero (MP): $52.45
TAGgro (CO): $53.95
BTN: $61.25

Preflop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($0.75, 6 Players)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.75, TAGgro raises to $5, 2 folds, SpewTank calls $4.50, Hero calls $3.25

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($15.25, 3 Players)
SpewTank checks, Hero checks, TAGgro bets $11, SpewTank calls $11, Hero ???

CanYouCallThis · #2 03-29-2007, 03:47 AM

I would fold preflop. I don't understand how you can give a line like this in your thread: "hasnt 3b pf too often, and i have to respect for something decent" and then calling a 3bet OoP with a mediocre hand like AQo.

As played preflop, I'dd fold it. Spew puts in another nice piece of dead money, since he's not going to call a shove. Leaves TAGgro.

I really don't care what he could have to start with, I'm just wondering how he sees you. As you described, you are playing tight aggro and not playing too many hands in this session. I think he puts you on a hand like midpair here preflop. That means, that with a shove here, he will prob most likely put you on a set. So his FE will prob be a big larger then you described.

I think he will not let go AA, but KK would probably be a fold, if he is at the level I think he is. So you have got the range AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK for him here imo.

He will fold KK/AK en call the shove with AA/QQ/JJ.

So no good here I think. Fold.

rakes.a.beach · #3 03-29-2007, 03:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold preflop. I don't understand how you can give a line like this in your thread: "hasnt 3b pf too often, and i have to respect for something decent" and then calling a 3bet OoP with a mediocre hand like AQo.

As played preflop, I'dd fold it. Spew puts in another nice piece of dead money, since he's not going to call a shove. Leaves TAGgro.

I really don't care what he could have to start with, I'm just wondering how he sees you. As you described, you are playing tight aggro and not playing too many hands in this session. I think he puts you on a hand like midpair here preflop. That means, that with a shove here, he will prob most likely put you on a set. So his FE will prob be a big larger then you described.

I think he will not let go AA, but KK would probably be a fold, if he is at the level I think he is. So you have got the range AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK for him here imo.

He will fold KK/AK en call the shove with AA/QQ/JJ.

So no good here I think. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense but your advice to fold preflop sucks. We're getting 2.25 to a 15 dollar pot. That's freaking 6:1. How much more nitty can we get with AQ OOP? Calling just for broadway and QQx flop is good enough.

I would probably lead out flop to see where I'm at. If he raises, then I'd fold. You really want to isolate the weaker player. With a spewtard behind, tagaggro prob won't make a move without overpair or better.

Split Suit · #4 03-29-2007, 04:08 AM

folding preflop doesnt make much sense to me. were gettin a decent price, and were also not completely OOP on the hand.

Split Suit · #5 03-29-2007, 04:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably lead out flop to see where I'm at. If he raises, then I'd fold. You really want to isolate the weaker player. With a spewtard behind, tagaggro prob won't make a move without overpair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

this was kind of my thinking. tho i figured he wudnt Cbet light (AK/TT in this case). so i figuured i got the same info with the check as a bet (so2speak). am i wrong in this thinking?

rakes.a.beach · #6 03-29-2007, 04:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would probably lead out flop to see where I'm at. If he raises, then I'd fold. You really want to isolate the weaker player. With a spewtard behind, tagaggro prob won't make a move without overpair or better.

[/ QUOTE ]

this was kind of my thinking. tho i figured he wudnt Cbet light (AK/TT in this case). so i figuured i got the same info with the check as a bet (so2speak). am i wrong in this thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm I'm not sure. You probably would have a better read on villian.

I think here's a good way to decide whether to check or bet. What would you do if you were holding QJ or a set? Are you betting/three bet or are you check/raising? I would probably lead out not to give a free card.

Also, folding AQ here w/o a bet is a pretty weak line in my opinion. AQ hitting Q high flop is as good as it gets. Just throw 11 in the pot and it makes our life a lot easier.

CanYouCallThis · #7 03-29-2007, 04:19 AM

You just said it, Qhigh flop is as good as it gets (if you hit a QQx flop 1/6 I want to play on your account!). Still, you want to fold to a raise from villain. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen; fold preflop.

Genz · #8 03-29-2007, 04:21 AM

Given you description of the players, I like a fold on the flop. The board is pretty coordinated and Spew could be drawing. And you are sandwiched between the two players who play aggressively, both. When you lead the flop here, AA and maybe even KK could flat call to keep Spew in the hand and pop you on the turn. Because you didn't reraise preflop, it's pretty easy for him to put you on a Q or draw here. It's just that you have to expect a lot of big bets until showdown on a pretty coordinated board against two players that make this hand worthless, imo.

tw0please · #9 03-29-2007, 04:22 AM

C/r is far superior to b/3b if you know villain is aggro enough to cbet scary flops like this, because of the potential dead money in the BB.

Also I think those who are saying the pfrr would fold KK to a shove are giving a player with tight stats way too much credit.

tw0please · #10 03-29-2007, 04:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You just said it, Qhigh flop is as good as it gets (if you hit a QQx flop 1/6 I want to play on your account!). Still, you want to fold to a raise from villain. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen; fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense but have you heard of implied odds??