t-mac or melo

[Narcoleptico]

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if you ever decide to actually watch a game

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this is really funny

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when i want the opinion of worthless euro-trash, i'll be sure to let you know.

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Dude,

I agree with you on this topic, but why do you have to be such an [censored]?

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Because it's the internet, not real life.

[Assani Fisher]

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if you ever decide to actually watch a game

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this is really funny

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when i want the opinion of worthless euro-trash, i'll be sure to let you know.

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Dude,

I agree with you on this topic, but why do you have to be such an [censored]?

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Because it's the internet, not real life.

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Actually its both.

I know that you're a bit new to the forum. There are a ton of regulars here, and many people here have even met in real life. Some people even make big money bets with others simply taking them at their word that they'll pay up. In short, what I'm trying to say is that it is a bit of a community here, and I've always tried to treat people the same way I'd treat them in real life.

We'd all welcome your posting here, but try to treat others with more respect. If not, you'll probably just end up getting banned.

[snowden719]

Narco,

I find it weird that you use stats to try and show that it's obvious that carmelo is better when the stats say it's close but probably edges t-mac

Carmelo is a better scorer, but not by a huge margin. Carmelo shoots at a higher percentage, but you forget the extent to which mcgrady's threes and free throws make it much closer. Counting Free throws as half a possesion (which isn't totally accurate but is a reasonable enough proxy) we have Carmelo scoring 29 points on 27.1 shots whereas mcgrady scores 24.3 on 23.9 shots. Mcgrady has slight edges at steals and blocks, and also turns the ball over .9 times less per game. Carmelo has 1.5 more rebounds but Mcgrady has 2.4 more assists per game. Mcgrady plays 3 minutes less per game than carmelo, mcgrady's raw assist and rebound numbers get a little better, although the turnovers advantage decreases a small amount. Really, with carmelo you have 4.7 more points on 2.6 more possessions (shots + turnovers- rebounds) but with 2.4 fewer assists, and a bit fewer blocks + steals.

given this I think you could go either way, and it seems definitely close as a possession in the NBA is worth about 1 point, but there's other factors that favor Mcgrady.

(1)Mcgrady plays 3 minutes less per game than carmelo, mcgrady's raw assist and rebound numbers get a little better, although the turnovers advantage decreases a small amount.

(2)Mcgrady plays in a slower offense which pushes down his raw totals

(3) Mcgrady is probably a better defender given that (a) those who watch him seem to think decenty highly of him whereas I never hear anything about carmelo's defense, and (b) Houston's defense is one of the best where denver's defense isn't anyhting special.(I know this isn't always accurate, but given that defense is a team game, we should prolly default to the defender on the better defensive team overall being the better defender unless there's good reason not to)

(4) Mcgrady plays the 2 where Carmelo plays the 3, it's much easier to shoot for a higher percentage and get more rebounds as a 3 opposed to a 2. I know that it's easier to get assists as a 2, but overall the numbers of 3's are better than the numbers of 2's, so we should also take that into consideration. I think people overlook this too often, that when looking at the raw stats of players, the bigger the player the better his stats are going to look in general.

I'm not a big fan of PER, but I think it can be reasonably helpful.

Mcgrady 23.16
Carmelo 21.58

-Snowden

[Assani Fisher]

great post, thread over.

[SharkTank43]

I voted for Anthony, but all the great information in this thread has swayed me to side with McGrady.

[ThomasPHoolery]

Very good post snowden

I don't even hesitate in taking T-Mac. If we pace adjust the numbers (Denver plays at a pace that gets them about 8 more possessions per game than Houston), McGrady wins at basically everything except shooting percentage, but that's not enough to push Melo over the edge in my opinion.

Taking Tmac's #s from January 1st on-- roughly when he's been "healthy" and adjusting for pace (holding Melo's numbers constant and adjusting the Rocket's pace), the healthy Tmac's big #'s are:

Tmac: 29 Pts, 7.3 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 2.9 TO
Melo: 29 pts, 3.9 assists, 5.9 rebounds, 3.85 TO

Their rebound rates are a wash (both in the mid 8's I think) , but the fact that McGrady has a Usage rate Over 30 and a TO rate that is under 9 is VERY valuable, and should not be understated. He'll most likely finish #3 or #4 this year in TO rate among players who are primary offensive weapons (behind Dirk, Redd, and Rip). His assist ratio (19.3) just blows Melo out the water.

[barryc83]

Great post snowden.

This is so Tmac. People comparing numbers seriously need to weigh in the style of offense factor. McGrady is a much better ball handler on the outside and can penetrate better too. Just watch both players in the playoffs.

[capone0]

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Great post snowden.

This is so Tmac. People comparing numbers seriously need to weigh in the style of offense factor. McGrady is a much better ball handler on the outside and can penetrate better too. Just watch both players in the playoffs.

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Both players have never been out of the first round.

I don't really have great feelings about either player. T-Mac get's hurt way too much to ever be considered one of the best. I think Carmelo has much better shot selection than McGrady who from time to time is more of a chucker. It's also amazing for such a pure shot, that T-Mac can only shoot 69% from the line.

T-Mac is a better ball handler. Both I think could be better defensively.

[barryc83]

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Great post snowden.

This is so Tmac. People comparing numbers seriously need to weigh in the style of offense factor. McGrady is a much better ball handler on the outside and can penetrate better too. Just watch both players in the playoffs.

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Both players have never been out of the first round.

I don't really have great feelings about either player. T-Mac get's hurt way too much to ever be considered one of the best. I think Carmelo has much better shot selection than McGrady who from time to time is more of a chucker. It's also amazing for such a pure shot, that T-Mac can only shoot 69% from the line.

T-Mac is a better ball handler. Both I think could be better defensively.

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That will change this year.

[capone0]

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Great post snowden.

This is so Tmac. People comparing numbers seriously need to weigh in the style of offense factor. McGrady is a much better ball handler on the outside and can penetrate better too. Just watch both players in the playoffs.

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Both players have never been out of the first round.

I don't really have great feelings about either player. T-Mac get's hurt way too much to ever be considered one of the best. I think Carmelo has much better shot selection than McGrady who from time to time is more of a chucker. It's also amazing for such a pure shot, that T-Mac can only shoot 69% from the line.

T-Mac is a better ball handler. Both I think could be better defensively.

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That will change this year.

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Will see, hopefully they finally do. Will setup a Houston-Mavs matchup, potentially.