big bluff 220 bb's deep

schwza · #1 03-27-2007, 10:27 PM

this is 1/2 but it's pretty deep, hope you don't mind.

hand 1: mostly for history, but if you want to comment here that's ok too.

Poker Stars
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
5 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter

Stack Sizes
SB: $266.70
BB: $54
UTG: $606.55
Hero (CO): $503.45
BTN: $408.60

Preflop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3, 5 Players)
UTG raises to $7, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, BB calls $22, UTG calls $17

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($73, 3 Players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $45, BB calls all-in for $30, UTG folds

the primary villain (and the guy who is the villain in the main hand) is UTG, who folds the flop. he is around 20/15 in a pretty big sample, but i haven't played with him in at least a few weeks. i'm around 25/20. we haven't tangled much yet this session before the hand above.

************
hand 2: this happens ~3 minutes later. this is the hand i'm more concerned with.

Poker Stars
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$1/$2 Blinds
5 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter

Stack Sizes
SB: $316.70
BB: $84
UTG: $582.55
Hero (CO): $446.45
BTN: $405.60

Preflop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($3, 5 Players)
UTG raises to $7, Hero calls $7, BTN calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($24, 3 Players)
UTG bets $13, Hero raises to $48, BTN folds, UTG calls $35

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($120, 2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $100, UTG calls $100

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($320, 2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets all-in for $291.45,

Go_Blue88 · #2 03-27-2007, 11:26 PM

Hand 2--

That Ace shouldn't make your range scarier. If that ace helped you then you have AA b/c I doubt you follow through on the turn with A6, A8, or A10 (assuming you'd even raise those here).

edit-- And I bet you reraise AA pf.

Just pointing that out. It'd prolly be helpful if you state your thought process on each street (eg what you're hoping to represent, what you think he has, etc). That way people could help you decide if there are holes in your reasoning (as in you make bad assumptions).

BobboFitos · #3 03-27-2007, 11:37 PM

id check behind the turn on hand 2 and fold to the ace river. id call some rivers and raise others
here, i dont know what you fold out. QQ/KK? 99? KT, QT? not positive what a 15pfr means utg, but i think there is small gray area of hands that fold, esp. because i dnt see how AKs or AQs or AJs fold.

FBP · #4 03-28-2007, 12:20 AM

Unless villain is the kinda TAG who loves playing the hero and putting you on a busted flush, I like it.

I think by the river you got your point accross in representing 2pair/set/str8, and villain usually will only have 1 pair, QQ+ often and the river A reduce odds of AA and helps us folding out QQ/KK.

I could see you getting caught by ATs perhaps, but there are only 2 combos of those.

Villain will rarely ever have a str8/set or he'd have c/r'd turn.

No really I don't see what hands he could have and be confortable calling here except AA (even AA has to be concerned by the str8 but will call obv).

I doubt a 20/15 at 1-2 deep will ever catch you here with one pair, and that's all he can have almost, so this looks vastly +EV.

LearnedfromTV · #5 03-28-2007, 12:34 AM

the A matters imo because your're repping that you don't give a [censored] if he has an ace and most 1/2 players will act like the ace matters even if it doesn't, especially when they don't have an ace; which he probably doesn't.

either one of you can have Ax spades but there aren't really that many of these. You basically are repping a set, and there's no way he has a set or a straight, and he might have KK or QQ which hates the ace even if it shouldn't have hit much of your range and even if it shouldn't affect your betting range because neither of you is likely to have one.

so i guess i think it's fine. Flop raise is good, second barrel good, and once you get to the the river, I think he can fold often enough.

also, it's very hard for you to be bluffing the best hand; what i mean is if he has a draw, given that he has a tightish range preflop, he probably has some pair better than 8s with it; KJs/QJs for example. And this is the kind of hand he can fold.

ades · #6 03-28-2007, 01:00 AM

Would you play AXs Q9 79 and sets the same way?

Jdanz · #7 03-28-2007, 01:10 AM

unless villain is retarded he doesn't fold qq or kk if he called the turn with them because of the ace.

In fact I'm more likely to call with qq or kk because of the ace, because it doesn't hit any reasonable part of your range other than a very aggressively played flush draw which I have to imagine you're checking behind or betting smaller. However people love repping aces.

If i somehow got here with qq or kk I'm probably calling this as you almost always have a set or air with this river push (A great player has more hands here a la jman's article)

MTBlue · #8 03-28-2007, 01:17 AM

In hand two I'd actually be afraid of a frozen set/two pair that won't fold. He's probably mucking the turn with alot of his one pairs.

ArturiusX · #9 03-28-2007, 01:28 AM

Hand 2, this looks hot with AJ, thus it makes it a bad bluff.

rebuyboy · #10 03-28-2007, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2--

That Ace shouldn't make your range scarier. If that ace helped you then you have AA b/c I doubt you follow through on the turn with A6, A8, or A10 (assuming you'd even raise those here).

edit-- And I bet you reraise AA pf.

Just pointing that out. It'd prolly be helpful if you state your thought process on each street (eg what you're hoping to represent, what you think he has, etc). That way people could help you decide if there are holes in your reasoning (as in you make bad assumptions).

[/ QUOTE ]
he can have 66, 88, TT, 97s, Q9ss, KQss etc.