Neteller Update...

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI. Gilchrist did send a message back today to the NCC group (with their latest press release) and a few minor other comments. We've decided to send a follow-up message to Neteller to reask a few of the key questions they are dancing around.

See the latest version of the letter we're planning on sending here and post comments - read through the rest of the thread if you want to see Gilchrist's message:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group...on/message/882

They did semi-address the privacy comment in their latest FAQs at least to say that they won't answer it..

I'm very open to thoughts around next steps (particularly by those most impacted by Neteller) -- but I still feel that asking questions and applying pressure to ensure things move forward is better than waiting to see what happens..

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It seems like you are beating a dead horse at this point and diverting attention away from whatever work these people are doing. You write a letter, then the dude reads it, then he sends it to Clifford Chance attorneys to review and see what, if anything they can answer, then they draft a response, draft a new FAQ, get back to you, then you ask the same question again worded a little differently. I appreciate the work you have done and I'm glad neteller finally shed some light on things, BUT, they are not going to change their mind on the 75 days. Have you ever worked with or against a government entity? 75 days to develop a plan seems overly optimistic, if anything. I agree with Mark Mitchell in your thread at this point...step back and relax so they can focus on whate they have to do. Ever have a day at work where you can't get a damn thing done because people keep calling or popping in without an appointment?

As to your specific questions:

1) how is it relevant? Will know what accounts the money is sitting in get my $4,500 back in my pocket quicker?

2) This has been answered. They have agreed to work with the gov't and navigant for an orderly release + they said something about the volume of transactions necessitates a plan for release, not just a free for all logjam.
Asked and answered: Why can’t NETELLER just send US customers cheques, bank wires, or allow them to use their ATM cards?
As discussed in our press release of February 8, 2007, the court-ordered seizure of funds, restrictions placed by third parties and related legal concerns have made it necessary to work to establish an orderly mechanism for the return of US customer funds with the USAO. The agreements reached between NETELLER, the USAO, and Navigant pave the way for that process to be established.

3) Why? because its the government and because they have agreed to comply with document requests that must be completed before the plan is approved. Navigant is sifting through all of the transactions and it will take some time.
asked and answered: 75 days seems a long time to devise a plan for returning US customers funds, and are there any milestones on the way?
The Group is working as hard as it can to return funds to US customers. NETELLER and the USAO intend to ensure an orderly return of funds and such a process takes time to establish and execute. However it is a complex issue, with potentially millions of transactions that need to be accounted for and processed. The Group and the USAO have engaged the services of a forensic accounting firm Navigant Consulting Inc, to assist with this process. The Group is continuing to work toward the return of funds in the quickest manner.

4) I believe they mention in their press release that they can't talk about this.

[egoldy]

I hear you -- and again, our goal is not to slow down the process (which I don't believe sending two letters over 3 weeks is doing).

In terms of your comments:

- I think it's relevant because I think that Neteller is lying to us or at best, not being up front. Their excuse for not being able to send us our money NOW is because money is “seized” or “they can’t do the transfers”. In the meanwhile, people in the NCC who have tried to track down any record of this seizure have come up with nothing. How much was seized? Where is it? And if “the court case against the Lawrence and Lefebvre is unrelated”, then what are we doing here?

In other words, IF the majority or all of the money is sitting with Neteller (as many in the group think it is) and if (in Neteller’s words) “To the Group’s knowledge, as of this date, no criminal action or proceeding has been brought against the Group, its current officers or directors by the USAO”, why can’t they just start issuing cashier’s checks? Assuming that a "portion" of the money was seized and they need to go through all this to get their money back to make payments (the plan, the Navigant investigation, etc.), then it's still a simple question to answer about how much was "seized". Bottom line, these are not difficult questions nor should it be considered confidential to know the status of our own money.

- My reason for pushing is not to slow things down, but simply because many believe that we're going to be sitting here in 75 days with either NO plan or some other excuses. I hope we're wrong and all goes smoothly - but we have no reason to trust anything that Neteller has said. Just because they say "they are working toward the return of funds in the quickest manner", doesn't mean that it is so. They know the amount of money owed and who it is owed to.

If there are “other reasons” that Neteller has not been up front about that would prevent them from releasing our funds, these issues could cause further delays or worse.

For those that are pushing a wait and see approach, having someone push and watch them will hopefully keep them on schedule to their “75 day plan release” and eventual payment to customers... I hope that those that want to wait can see and appreciate that...

[Wahoo73]

I agree with PoorLawyer about questions 2, 3 and 4. I think Neteller has answered these questions as well as they are going to answer them. IMO, there is no constructive point to pursuing these issues any further at this time.

However, I do agree with you about the first set of questions. PoorLawyer is correct when he says that having these answered isn't going to get his (or any of our) money returned to us quicker. Yet these are questions that deserve to be answered, inasmuch as they would clarify a lot of uncertainty that the NCC members have about what happened and the status of their funds.

Perhaps you could expand these questions a bit by referring back to the points we previously made about the three categories of customers/funds, ask Neteller to confirm or refute our understanding of these, and more clearly explain what happened to our money immediately prior to January 16th, what happened to our money on January 16th, and what happened to our money after January 16th. In other words, ask them to explain "who did what to whom" during each of those periods. If nothing else, providing us this information would be more reassuring to us that Neteller is being transparent.

[egoldy]

Feel free to post any changes or updates to the letter that you think would make it more effective....

I'm open to ideas.

[Sniper]

Heres the updated Media FAQ (some additional info has been added from what was put up after the last press release)...

When will US customers get their money back?
The recent agreements between NETELLER, Navigant Consulting, and the US Attorney’s Office (USAO) represent an important step in the process of an orderly distribution of funds to US customers. These agreements outline the terms and a timeline under which NETELLER will work toward distributing the funds. As a result, the Group anticipates that within the next 75 days it will be able to announce the plan by which the funds will be distributed to US customers.

What is preventing NETELLER from distributing funds back to US customers when other companies seem able to?
The situation for NETELLER is more complex than for those other companies who still continue to service the gaming market in the US. In mid-January the US authorities made formal complaints against two founders and former employees of NETELLER. These included the complaint that they had set up NETELLER to process gambling transactions for US residents, which the US authorities indicated that they considered to be illegal. NETELLER announced its intent to withdraw from the US market. At that time banks in the US started interrupting and declining transactions from NETELLER. Also the US authorities seized funds as they were being transferred through the US automated clearing house (ACH) system back to customers as the Group was exiting its US business. The Group is now working with the US authorities to make an orderly return of funds to its US customers.

Who is Navigant and what will they be doing?
In negotiation with the USAO, NETELLER has agreed to engage independent firm Navigant Consulting Inc., to provide financial consulting and forensic accounting services to the Group, including oversight of the process of returning funds to US customers.

How will funds be distributed to US customers?
The actual mechanism for how funds will be distributed to US customers will be determined during the next phase of the process. The USAO and Navigant must approve the distribution plan and we expect to be in a position to announce the distribution plan within the next 75 days.

75 days seems a long time to devise a plan for returning US customers funds, and are there any milestones on the way?
The Group is working as hard as it can to return funds to US customers. NETELLER and the USAO intend to ensure an orderly return of funds and such a process takes time to establish and execute. However it is a complex issue, with potentially millions of transactions that need to be accounted for and processed. The Group and the USAO have engaged the services of a forensic accounting firm Navigant Consulting Inc, to assist with this process. The Group is continuing to work toward the return of funds in the quickest manner.

Your press releases mention document production and forensic accounting requested by the USAO. What information has been shared or is expected to be shared with US authorities?
The Group is not in a position to disclose what information has or has not been requested or provided to the USAO. The Group also does not know what information may be requested in the future. The Group continues to cooperate with the USAO’s investigation, under the advice of its legal advisers and in accordance with applicable laws and court orders in the Isle of Man.

Why can’t NETELLER just send US customers cheques, bank wires, or allow them to use their ATM cards?
As discussed in our press release of February 8, 2007, the court-ordered seizure of funds, restrictions placed by third parties and related legal concerns have made it necessary to work to establish an orderly mechanism for the return of US customer funds with the USAO. The agreements reached between NETELLER, the USAO, and Navigant pave the way for that process to be established.

Who are Steve Lawrence and John Lefebvre and what is their relationship to the company?
Steve Lawrence and John Lefebvre are founders, but no longer employees of the company. Neither has been involved in the operational aspects of the business for a number of years. Both are currently shareholders, and hold just over 5% of the company each.

Has the Company been charged by the US authorities?
To the Group’s knowledge, as of this date, no criminal action or proceeding has been brought against the Group, its current officers or directors by the USAO. Please refer to our February 8, 2007 press release for more background on the U.S. situation.

Who are the Group’s legal advisers? Are they well known and credible?
The Group retained Clifford Chance earlier this year to advise and represent it. Clifford Chance is one of the world’s top legal firms with 28 offices in 20 countries. They have deep experience specialise in advising financial institutions and commercial enterprises in complex criminal and regulatory matters.

Where can I find the information that you provide to your US customers?
The Group provides regular informational updates to US customers at updates.neteller.com. This information is usually updated after material event or market announcement. .

[egoldy]

Took input from people on this site and NCC and created a new new version:

Open to suggestions / rewordings:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group...on/message/903

[Sniper]

egoldy, Here's what you wrote there...

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Gilchrist,

Thank you for your response and your latest press releases, but we would appreciate it if we could get answers to a few unanswered questions. These issues do not involve confidential information – they simply request to the status of our current funds and why it cannot be paid back.

1) Where specifically is our money? Why is there is no record of any government seizures? What country is the money in? Is it still in NETeller's possession? Does NETeller possess any of the money? All of the money?

2) What or who is preventing you from releasing the funds? Why can companies like Bodog issue checks and you cannot?

3) Our discussions with attorneys have raised other questions about the overall solvency of Neteller and its true ability to pay its members back in a timely fashion. Do you have a comment on this?

On behalf of the group, I would like to thank you for a quick response to this letter. In the meanwhile, we will continue to discuss this in the open press so that everyone is aware of the latest developments. On that note, I would once again ask if we could get regular updates over the next 75 days, even if it is an update stating that nothing new has happened.

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Comments...

1. "These issues do not involve confidential information"... Who are you to tell a VP at Neteller, what is or isn't confidential? (That sentence should be reworded)

2. Question 2 is covered in the FAQ

3. Question 3 is silly... What information did the attorneys you have spoke with, have that isn't publically available? You can look at their financials yourself. Customer funds are segregated, so aside from the 55 mil that was seized, the remainder should be sitting in an account, barring further seizure of customer funds, or a seizure of Neteller's corporate operating funds. Their cash position beyond customer deposits was also strong. Any negative comments regarding their solvency to this point, have merely been unfounded rumors.

[Sniper]

Some thoughts on this section of the FAQ...

[ QUOTE ]
The Group is not in a position to disclose what information has or has not been requested or provided to the USAO. The Group also does not know what information may be requested in the future. The Group continues to cooperate with the USAO’s investigation, under the advice of its legal advisers and in accordance with applicable laws and court orders in the Isle of Man.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. While, "not in a position to disclose" could have several interpretations... it may mean that US Gov't requests for information are now going thru Navigant, who has FULL access to all Neteller records. In other words, Neteller may be out of the loop on what information is being provided.

2. Has anyone found any information on the "court orders in the Isle of Man"?

[NesOne]

[ QUOTE ]
egoldy, Here's what you wrote there...

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Gilchrist,

Thank you for your response and your latest press releases, but we would appreciate it if we could get answers to a few unanswered questions. These issues do not involve confidential information – they simply request to the status of our current funds and why it cannot be paid back.

1) Where specifically is our money? Why is there is no record of any government seizures? What country is the money in? Is it still in NETeller's possession? Does NETeller possess any of the money? All of the money?

2) What or who is preventing you from releasing the funds? Why can companies like Bodog issue checks and you cannot?

3) Our discussions with attorneys have raised other questions about the overall solvency of Neteller and its true ability to pay its members back in a timely fashion. Do you have a comment on this?

On behalf of the group, I would like to thank you for a quick response to this letter. In the meanwhile, we will continue to discuss this in the open press so that everyone is aware of the latest developments. On that note, I would once again ask if we could get regular updates over the next 75 days, even if it is an update stating that nothing new has happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comments...

1. "These issues do not involve confidential information"... Who are you to tell a VP at Neteller, what is or isn't confidential? (That sentence should be reworded)

2. Question 2 is covered in the FAQ

3. Question 3 is silly... What information did the attorneys you have spoke with, have that isn't publically available? You can look at their financials yourself. Customer funds are segregated, so aside from the 55 mil that was seized, the remainder should be sitting in an account, barring further seizure of customer funds, or a seizure of Neteller's corporate operating funds. Their cash position beyond customer deposits was also strong. Any negative comments regarding their solvency to this point, have merely been unfounded rumors.

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PWNED.

[egoldy]

No idea what PWNED means - but I'm sure it's useful valuable information intended to help get our money back.

To the other much more useful comments:

1) Probably right about confidentiality - While I don't think it's confidential information and I don't care if he's a V.P., I hear what you're saying. I'll play with that a little bit and probably take it out..

2) They have not answered the question why they can't issue checks like Bodog except to say that they need to finish the Navigant investigation before they can pay us... May not get an answer to this, but still going to ask it again...

3) In terms of question #3, it's something that the attorney we spoke to brought up -- based on his findings that a large portion of their customer base was in the US (and Canada for that matter). With that going away, he asked whether there would be issues with solvency of Neteller as a whole.. Might be a non-issue, but for those that are counting on getting their money back - the solvency of Neteller was interesting to some.. Probably will be ignored told that "they can't answer it", but I think it's worth asking...

Thanks for the thoughts Sniper....