3/6 B&M flush draw on paired board

[mikeca]

This is a somewhat tighter than normal 3/6 B&M game. A couple of really loose players had busted out and the game now had 3 or 4 people seeing most flops.

Early player here is somewhat loose pre-flop and aggressive post-flop. Cut-off has not been at the table long, but I don’t remember him playing many hands, which means he is probably reasonable player.

I’m in the SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Early player limps, folded to cutoff who raises, button folds, I call, BB calls, early player calls.

Is this call from the SB against what may be a reasonable raise too loose?

Flop: 8 SB, 4 players, K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check and it is checked around.

Nobody has a K? That is hard to believe.

Turn: 4 BB, 4 players, [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, BB checks, early player bets, cutoff raises, I ??

The early player might be bluffing at the pot, but I’m pretty sure at least one of them has a K. I am not closing the action. The non-nut flush could easily lose here to full house or better flush.

[noob_sauce]

call is fine preflop IMO...

I fold turn, if ep flat calls the raise you are getting 4 to 1, but with the pair on board, ep still left to act behind you , and your draw being the non nut flush this is -ev IMO..

[ChuckyB]

I hate having to fold PF but there are too few opponents and you have the worst possible position. You mentioned this was an unusually tight table. If I felt it was likely/certain that 6+ were going for two bets, I'd be in there. This one seems like there's too much going against me. Plus a CO raise after a limper is a legit hand.

On the turn the early player may have hit a 6. The CO's raise means he's got the K it seems (or at least a pair above the 6).
When it's to you, there's 6.5 BB in the pot (don't forget the rake) and you have to call 2. Not good enough odds for a 9-outer (much less the probable 7-outer you have here).

Small pot. Forget about it.

In the future, you could bet the flop and hope CO tries to check-raise you on the turn. A free card would be sweet.

[Matt Williams]

Fold pre-flop. Table is tight and at best you are behind a pair. At worst, you are dominated. Plus, you are 1st to act the rest of the way.

[James.]

did you consider 3town pf? not recommending it as the best course of action, but on a tight table i've been known to do it.

i would call the turn. i'm not sold a King is out. CO could very well be raising a hand like 88-QQ for a free showdown. he could easily think he has the best hand and after having waited for a safe turn to give action. EP will often have a PP or some Ax/suited connector that hit a pair, so i don't think we see 3bets go in on the turn very often at all(the more often 3bets go in, the closer it becomes, though; a read could affect this). it's very possible he is just be FOS also. either way we usually have 8 outs and sometimes 11-14 with some implied odds.

[mikeca]

[ QUOTE ]
i would call the turn. i'm not sold a King is out. CO could very well be raising a hand like 88-QQ for a free showdown. he could easily think he has the best hand and after having waited for a safe turn to give action.

[/ QUOTE ]

The early player had LAG tendencies, especially post flop. He could easily bet the turn with nothing or a small pocket pair. The cutoff though had raised pre-flop and raised the turn bet. He might have AA, QQ-99, AQ-AT, or he might have looser raising standards. After the turn raise, I think the cut off either has to have a K or a big pocket pair. Even if neither the early player nor the CO have a K, but one or both has a pocket pair, with the board paired, you have to worry that the card that makes my flush also gives them a full house. I cannot see where I have more than 7 real outs here, which is 5.6 to 1. The pot is only offering 3.5 to 1 on my cold call, or 4 to 1 if the early player calls too.

Now there may be some implied odds here. If I miss the flush, I am folding to any bet on the river. If I make the flush, I should be able to check raise the river (hopefully, it wouldn’t get checked through), but I will also make my flush and lose to a full house here too, so I cannot see any real implied odds here.

Checking the flop when you have a K in your hand would be a pretty standard play in this game. Lots of players do that, but this is B&M, and these guys don’t make that many fancy post flop plays. Raising the turn for a free showdown seems unlikely to me. Raising the turn because they think no one has a K and are trying to steal the pot is a possibility, but I didn’t see the cutoff as the kind of player to try that.

[mikeca]

I folded the turn here and the BB folded also, but the EP 3-bet, the CO capped, and the EP called.

The river was a 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which would have given my a flush. The EP checked, the CO bet, and the EP called.

The CO showed AK and the EP mucked. I suspect from the turn 3-bet that the EP must have had a K with a lower kicker. EP could have had a big pocket pair, but I would have expected a pre-flop raise from this player in that case. Neither player had a full house. My flush would have been good, but I still think this laydown was correct from an odds point of view.