Neteller and the Monroe Doctrine: Get out of North America or else

[MiltonFriedman]

"we won't prosecute you if you leave the Canadian market"?

I never said that was the totality of a deal. Far from it.

As for being 'clueless", I'll rely on political experience of my own. If you do NOT think that such a US "get out of North America" demand or condition, among others, is possible or even likely, then your past experiences with the Executive Branch have been different than mine.

In light of NAFTA, and ongoing trade talks, I think DOJ is well aware of where Canada is located, and its reluctance to actually outlaw online gaming.

This is horse-whipping time; Neteller is still the lead horse in the gaming money train. Deals are struck on all sorts of fronts in plea bargains.

Worried about an international incident ??? Hey, this is the same DOJ that career-shot 8 US Attorneys, 8 of their own and good ones at that, on a political whim.

[questions]

The point is that, within the context of a thread discussing whether or not US authorities are involved in Neteller's withdrawal from the Canadian market, that if Canada lacks the same degree of sovereignty from US influence as, say, France, then it is probably true that there has been arm-twisting going on. Your counter-argument is, "wrong," but you haven't really fleshed why that idea is wrong.

[adanthar]

this conversation's tilting me with stupidity so I'm gonna bow out of it. clearly, a US attorney appointed by the President of the United States is going to spend a bunch of time telling an unindicted British company illegally doing business in the US to get out of Canada or else (but when an actual sportsbook gets busted, leaving Canada was not on the table). you win.

also, the earth spins around the central point of 1600 pennsylvania avenue.

[MiltonFriedman]

Skall,

Look at the political nature of the fight in the US and career paths in DOJ. How would bagging Neteller in Canada NOT be a good career move for a politically-motivated US Attorney wanna-be ?

Remember, the issue ostensibly on the table is US based, and is life or death for Neteller ... My reference to the Monroe Doctrine was only partly in jest. It was trade then and it is trade now.

If you want an analogy, look at how Germany currently is being told by the EU they cannot outlaw Internet Gaming.

[adanthar]

argh okay one more

[ QUOTE ]
Look at the political nature of the fight in the US and career paths in DOJ. How would bagging Neteller in Canada NOT be a good career move for a politically-motivated US Atorney wanna-be ?

[/ QUOTE ]

negatives: a Canadian goes 'WTF' and places a phone call to his US counterpart, who also goes 'WTF' and asks the guy responsible 'why did you tell somebody they couldn't do business in a country where their business is legal?'
positives: ...yeah I'm not sure where the political capital is here

[ QUOTE ]
If you want an analogy, look at how Germany currently is being told by the EU they cannot outlaw Internet Gaming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Germany: EU as Canada:America, got it

[questions]

[ QUOTE ]
this conversation's tilting me with stupidity so I'm gonna bow out of it. clearly, a US attorney appointed by the President of the United States is going to spend a bunch of time telling an unindicted British company illegally doing business in the US to get out of Canada or else (but when an actual sportsbook gets busted, leaving Canada was not on the table). you win.

also, the earth spins around the central point of 1600 pennsylvania avenue.

[/ QUOTE ]

And on your next flight, you have to leave the hand cream in your checked baggage and take your shoes off and put them through the scanner and "oh, yes, would you mind submitting to an x-ray, and we'll let you board faster?" Yes, the last two of the three have happened to me.

Point is, even if it's stupid, there is no limit to government stupidity, and even if the logic in arguing that Neteller pulled out of Canada due to US pressure seems like tortured logic, it doesn't seem THAT tortured, and even makes a kind of sense in a paranoid security-obsessed world we live in.

I don't really know whether or not I believe it, but I'm inclined to believe that pressure did have something to do with it.

[Skallagrim]

I understand where you are coming from Milton, and your willingness to look beyond the obvious is appreciated. But I still dont really see it - What good does it do the US to get neteller out of Canada? Unless Canada were to have similar laws, even the NAFTA part of your argument fails - and that was a great point.

Bagging neteller was, I am sure, looked at as a career move by some, but "and I also convinced them to leave Canada" just does not seem to add anything.

[BruinEric]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, DOJ has squeezed the cojones of Neteller in return for not prosecuting the company. It really looks to me like the quid pro quo included a GET OUT OF NORTH AMERICA term.

Keep in mind that NONE of the older e-commerce operators were virgins when it came to processing sports betting deposits, apparently a chargeable offense under the Wire Act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there any facts to support this? Or is this purely conjecture / gossip?

I gave this thread a skim, but didn't see any sources to back up this claim. I mean...anything? Like "my pal at neteller says this is the rumor around the building." Or something besides a guess?

[MiltonFriedman]

"Germany: EU as Canada:America, got it "

No, the analogy is Germany:EU as Canadarivate causes of action under NAFTA. ... or perhaps US:WTO ?

There is a wealth of litigation under NAFTA for unfair trade practices .... If something doesn't exist in Canada, then it cannot form the basis for a trade complaint.

Do you really think that "someone in Canada" as you put it would have pulled the trigger indirectly, yet you scoff at a direct shot across the table of plea bargains over Wire Act prosecution ?? Why draw the distinction ?

DOJ would not give 2 seconds worry to your "WTF" Canadian phone call ... after all Neteller did it "voluntarily" just before the vice grip was loosened.

[Poker CPA]

Mendicious

"In otherwords, the DOJ's primary focus does not appear to be anti-gambling per se, but money laundering/ease of anonymous transference, issues?"

I wondering when someone would bring this up. Nice one.