King Diamonds, to check or not to check (100NL @ UB)

SharkSandwich · #1 03-23-2007, 07:26 AM

Even back in my SSL posting days I always found it nearly impossible to find a hand of mine I had doubts over, after the fact. This one might be standard, but to me (a new NL player) in toto, it leaves me with questions.

Villain is a 24/6/1.3 Tag. And sadly my attention was mostly on another table. My image, I'm a buyin down, haven't won a significant hand, and lost a few small/mid pots at showdown.

We've been involved in one significant hand.

Where he openraised ($3.50), had a caller, and I 3-bet to $17 with QQ from BB. They both called.
Flop comes AJ9r. He calls my 28 bet into the 50 pot. And I check-fold to a 50 bet when a second Jack hits the Turn.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($113)
BB ($344.90)
UTG ($96.50)
MP ($89.75)
Hero ($105.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($19.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?...

If we bet the Turn and get Checkraised pot (which leaves us with a 1/3 of our stack if we call) are we committed to getting the rest in behind, and praying for a diamond?

If we check, we call a river bet,
But if we're Checked to we?...

Thanks for any replies.

Rkoo · #2 03-23-2007, 09:22 AM

Check turn, call river.
If villian checks river, bet for value.

CobraGoat · #3 03-23-2007, 09:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check turn, call river.
If villian checks river, bet for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't have the Kd i am more likely to fire turn again.

Rkoo · #4 03-23-2007, 09:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If you don't have the Kd i am more likely to fire turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and fold if get raised??

Redd · #5 03-23-2007, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you don't have the Kd i am more likely to fire turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and fold if get raised??

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we can fold if we get raised decently here with or without the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. He doesn't sound like the type to pull of a ballsy bluff often enough to justify us continuing.

It just sucks more to fold with the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] since we're forced give up a larger share of the pot.

I think I'd also check here with the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (calling any river) and bet without (folding to any further aggression/checking behind riv).

SharkSandwich · #6 03-23-2007, 01:00 PM

Thanks guys.
OK, so we check the River (because we have the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) as I did.

We're all ready to call the river (the blank T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) bet out from opponent with a flush, or bluffing. And happy to. We can withstand even a potsize 30 betout here.

Except he doesn't bet out. He checks.

So, as suggested I value bet. I bet half the pot. 10 into 19.5. Hoping for a call from a Queen.

And I get insta-checkraised pot. Which pretty much sucks.
The pots now 80, and it's 40 more to me to call.

I actually don't think about it that long. Before folding. I can't be good here, right?

After folding the hand it hits me. The problem here is one thing, my hand is as good as face up. It's utterly obvious I'm valuebetting a pretty good hand (overpair/big queen) and that I can't stand heat from a flush. So the opponent can make this move with air and stand a good chance of taking it down.
And that is the problem in thinnish value bets in position here when our hand is pretty readable as not too strong (Jman's been posting similar hands in HSNL recently).

What's the deal with this situation?

Would any of you call a pot checkraise on the river here?
If not was it not pretty obvious to a good opponent that (while I could call a bluff) I couldn't call a checkraise bluff?

How often are your opponents, or you, doing this?
And isn't it a case where an opponent can make this move with nothing and stand a very good chance of taking a good pot of a player than can fold, because he had to squeeze that last bit of juice out of the bottle at the end?

I'm not that happy with the situation. I'm still not completely sure he wasn't floating me (or knew his Queen wouldn't be good enough to call with) and that I let him take the pot off me.
But I'm also thinking of incorporating the river checkraise bluff into my game. So it's not all bad.

Thoughts?