An objective analysis: Why doesn’t small ball work at micro stakes?

[matrix]

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I don't think what OP is describing is small ball. It isn't about LAGging it up and trying to outplay everyone, it's exactly the opposite. It's sitting back and picking your spots. Instead of playing power poker you play a little more passively and play smaller pots

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Small Ball is defined in HOH2 as:

smallball is a style based on making small moves at pots, blending probe and continuation bets, or calls followed by small raises, or bets based on position to pull down pots cheaply without much of a hand. The key word here is "cheap." Since not all of these moves will work, don't invest a lot of money in any particular move. Just keep bobbing and weaving ... stealing small pots while you wait for the big hand that doubles you up"

Which imo pretty much describes LAG play.

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I agree.. I've played with him a few times.. he's very quick to 3 bet and try to bludgeon people with his stack... that is not at all small ball.

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prodonkey:

thats the 2nd time in this thread you've called out OP for playing LAG [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

from the OP:

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I wish I had understood this a few months ago, it would have saved me a lot of undue stress and frustration.

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I read that as "I used to play LAG lots and now I play TAG and I find I have much more success with it"

So what's your point prodonkey?

all:

Please keep posts in uNL civil. This thread is starting to turn into a flame fest. Unnecessary flaming isn't good for anyone.

Some players can play LAG style well and make a good return - most players can't. When you are starting out it makes much more sense to play simple ABC TAG until you have more experience. If you can play LAG well then good for you. There is after all more than one way to fillet a fish. Thats no reason tho to bash OP.

Play nice people.

[prodonkey]

I don't have a point.. post count +1

[fccz]

I'm a beginer, can someone explain to me what 20/13/3 means ???

[prodonkey]

20 is % of time you voluntarily put money in the pot.. 13 is the % of time you preflop raise.. 3 is total agression factor according to poker tracker.. which means he raises 3 times as often as calls.

Isn't this stuff in the faq?

[Marshall28]

When i wrote the original post, I didn't really consider exactly what I was talking about I suppose. LAG isn't exactly what I want to say 'doesn't work' because I've definitely had some success w/ it in the past. Small ball, however, after I think about it more, is still a lot of what I'm doing even though my play is tighter. I guess the essential point to the post was that we do know it to be true that playing LAG will get us more action from our opponents when we have a big hand, but it's actually quite unnecessary as micro stakes opponents have the tendency to pay us off regardless of our image (because for the most part they don't consider it). Plus the fact that playing LAG gets us in a lot of marginal spots post flop where its quite difficult to make the correct decision.

BUT ANYWAYS, I was trying to point out that those pots where you are splashing around a lot, the 10-20bb sized pots... you don't need to win those, or even be involved in them, you really only need to win a few big hands a day to be a very successful player.

[sputum]

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When i wrote the original post, I didn't really consider exactly what I was talking about I suppose. LAG isn't exactly what I want to say 'doesn't work' because I've definitely had some success w/ it in the past. Small ball, however, after I think about it more, is still a lot of what I'm doing even though my play is tighter. I guess the essential point to the post was that we do know it to be true that playing LAG will get us more action from our opponents when we have a big hand, but it's actually quite unnecessary as micro stakes opponents have the tendency to pay us off regardless of our image (because for the most part they don't consider it). Plus the fact that playing LAG gets us in a lot of marginal spots post flop where its quite difficult to make the correct decision.

BUT ANYWAYS, I was trying to point out that those pots where you are splashing around a lot, the 10-20bb sized pots... you don't need to win those, or even be involved in them, you really only need to win a few big hands a day to be a very successful player.

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Oooo but you'll get called a nit [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Hope you can fade that [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Heh I have a theory that if one just kinda sat there at an NL25 table and took what they were given they'd beat it for a decent rate (not sure how much, not enough data [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) As long as one can do that, the rest is jam. LAG, TAG whatever.