ciaffone deep stack CP article

[smbruin22]

i assume (perhaps wrongly) that we can post links to CP articles...

anyhow here is ciaffone's latest article. talking about very deep stacks (200BB and bigger).....

lots of interesting stuff.... much more limping with "excellent hands" OOP than i would have thought. but i think he's correct...

but this caught my eye, from the "pay more attention to your position" section.

First, be a fanatical folder in the small blind. That little dab you already have in the pot should be totally discounted because of your poor position. Drawing hands are particularly bad, but nothing is so good that it should not be severely demoted due to your poor position.

i thought the idea with giant stacks is that you can play ANY TWO from small blind or button (i know SB and button are completely different) with deep stacks....

anyhow, very good article.

BTW, the eric lynch (rizen??) articles in CP are really excellent. very modern and applied.

[RedGladiator]

Where's the link?

[smbruin22]

sorry my bad....

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/16594

[thunder911]

I like Ciaffones books a lot.

Not sure about the advice of staying out of raised pots with small pocket pairs.
Being scared of set over set is not a good enough reason in my opinion.

If the opponents play so well that they are not calling their chips off with TP/overpair or 2 pair then you probably want to find another NL game.
Anyone else agree?

[fraac]

I'd say that was read-specific.

[Peter666]

The problem with the small pocket pairs is that they don't have much advantage pre flop. You're not starting any raising wars or going all in with them whereas you may with the top pocket pairs.

So taking that into consideration, plus the rare set over set, and the fact that it would be foolish to call all in with a mere overpair postflop in deep stack, I see the case for dumping them except when in the best positions.

[thunder911]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with the small pocket pairs is that they don't have much advantage pre flop. You're not starting any raising wars or going all in with them whereas you may with the top pocket pairs.

So taking that into consideration, plus the rare set over set, and the fact that it would be foolish to call all in with a mere overpair postflop in deep stack, I see the case for dumping them except when in the best positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are not talking about calling huge all in raises, just standard ones in position such as 3 x BB, which is a just 1.5% of your stack assuming at least 200 BB.
Maybe I just play differntly to everyone else but my results suggest that I tend to stack more people with a set vs an overpair or TPTK than anything else.
As I said, if you arnt stacking people with these hands then you should probably find a softer game.

[Worldclass]

[Bob Ciaffone] Do the math yourself. You flop a set about one time out of eight. Assuming you play it for all your money, as does an overpair, you will win about eighty percent of the time. You should see that the price is wrong when you are out of position, because you normally do not win a big pot often enough to compensate for all the dribbling.

This was Bob's response to my question about limping 66-22 in early position.

[Dynasty]

There's no chance I'm folding any pocket pair for a normal sized pre-flop raise.

[Mano]

[ QUOTE ]
[Bob Ciaffone] Do the math yourself. You flop a set about one time out of eight. Assuming you play it for all your money, as does an overpair, you will win about eighty percent of the time. You should see that the price is wrong when you are out of position, because you normally do not win a big pot often enough to compensate for all the dribbling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doing the Math myself:

Assuming 200BB and you get it all in with set, EV for calling a raise to 4BB's :

EV = (7/8)*(-4) + (1/8)((.8 - .2)*200) = +11.5 BB's