nl200 aces badly played vs big donk

[fringsrache]

villain was surely a donk, running at 70/13/1. a few hand before i saw him calling a big reraise pf with k8o and playing it very poorly after he hit his king.

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($209.85)
BB ($12.00)
UTG ($197.00)
MP1 ($81.00)
MP2 ($208.70)
CO ($357.50)
Button ($181.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $11</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, CO calls $9.

Flop: ($26) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $20</font>, CO calls $20.

Turn: ($66) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, CO calls $40.

River: ($146) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $100</font>, Hero calls $70.

Final Pot: $346


when i saw the flop i was really hopin i dont get a call b/c it was so drawy. when another club hit on the turn i was unsure what to do.
usually i d check but then again i actually wanted to get this "monster-under-the-bed"- thing out of my head, so i bet again.

i liked the 4 on the river coz i it gave me the nut-two-pair.
i fired a blocking bet and got raised. i think this should usually be an easy laydown, but then again my blocking was too small and screamed "i am weak".

i got a lot of problem these kinda hand vs. total donk who could have just about every hand.

plz give a me a line for this.
in the end: how bad is this actually badly. just bad? very bad? embarrassing?

[JCurtin]

I'm actually kinda torn on this hand. Part of me likes the river bet, but only if you make it with the intention of folding to a raise. The other part hates it because it does scream weakness/blocking bet/please don't raise.

I'm unsure whether this bet will prevent big bluffs or induce them. A $30 bet into $140 pot is just so weak. It probably makes the villian thinks he has fold equity if he raises since you'd still have about $110 left.

I think that a bet of $50 might be better if you can fold to a raise. You are only left with $90, but what could be possibly raise this river with that doesn't have you crushed, especially after a value bet rather than the blocking bet that you actually threw out.

As played, I think that you have to fold unless you've seen the villan make a bluff like this before. His aggression factor is a tiny 1, so my thoughts are that he can't possibly raise the river without a hand that has you beat. Even if he is overplaying a hand like 89, wouldn't the board pairing on the river slow this down. Also, with an aggression factor so low, does he really bluff in this spot?!

My guesses for his hands would have to be a flush or Ac4x. I doubt he plays a flopped set this slow, but it's possible.

Best part of the hand: good turn bet, can't just check in that spot and give up the lead.

Worst part: calling the river - your weak bet may (small chance) have induced a bluff, but long-term against an opponent this passive, you are crushed 95% of the time.

[SABR42]

River is terrible.

Don't block bet the river. Just value bet like $80 and make him call with his trash.

[Shady_deuces]

i would c/f the turn because i think he has us beat already if not he has 99-JJ. The call behind twice makes me think he floped a set or a straight. The club could be a bad card for him aswell but i say once it hits you are almost certainly beat. If he called with a pocket pair that hasnt hit a set he will check behind again or make a small blocking bet which then you can decide to call/fold. I say you let the aces go on the turn if faced with a bet and wait till the K high flop.

[fringsrache]

[ QUOTE ]
River is terrible.

Don't block bet the river. Just value bet like $80 and make him call with his trash.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought about openshoving, too. but do u really think thats the right board to do that?
the point is that all those 60-75/4/0.5 guys love to see flops with just about any hand but when the big money goes in they usually have more than one pair.

i totally agree now that i should have folded the river. but i just couldnt do it. i mean of course he could have k8, a9k9...tt but guys like him would just call with these hand and never ever raise the river.

so we almost agree about the river, but what about the turn??
c/c?, b/f, c/f???

[fringsrache]

..same [censored] again...
villain is 80/20/1.7

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($265.50)
MP ($92.70)
CO =#A500AF(villain)/ ($163.10)
Button ($262.00)
SB ($370.10)
Hero ($191.00)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
[color=#666666]2 folds</font>, CO =#A500AF(villain)/ checks, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, SB completes, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $13</font>, CO =#A500AF(villain)/ calls $11, SB folds.

Flop: ($30) 7, 2, 8 [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $24</font>, villain calls $24.

Turn: ($78) 9 [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
Hero checks, villain checks.

River: ($78) 2 [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $45</font>, [color=#CC3333]villain raises to $90</font>, Hero calls $45.

Final Pot: $258

[JCurtin]

once again, hate the river.

Bet the turn to protect against draws and extact value from hands like A8, 9T. If he raises, I probably fold...again, he has a very low aggression factor and will likely let you know if you are beat, but you HAVE to protect your hand at this point.

I probably check call the river a little more often than bet/fold. You might be beat, but it also allows him to "value" bet a weaker hand and bluff a missed flush draw. Close call here, but either way there's no way I call his raise.

Horrible river call, especially after seeing what he did the first hand (which, I'm assuming had your AA beat-results would be nice). Min raise on the river is almost never a bluff, especially from a guy with such a low aggression factor.

You are calling raises on the river where you are almost never winning. C/F river is too weak, B/F will likely extract value from the hands mentioned above, and C/C at least allows him to bluff and gives you the chance to showdown (hopefully for relatively cheap)

[fringsrache]

how can i get this [censored] out of my head? i always always always think: "ahh this guy is sooooo bad he cant have it. he has tpnk for sure..."
how can i be healed? actually these guys should pay me off and not vice versa.

thx for the replys. i ll work on it.

[Weaktite77]

i personally think its hard for bad villians to be creative enough to raise the river on a bluff, and i dooubt he's value raising a top pair type hand.
i guess in this situation a fold might be best

but in general, i hate teh river bet. Bet big.

[fringsrache]

results
1st hand villain had 45s
2nd hand villain had q2s