Wpex Stole My Money

[DAC_]

WSEX_GM: “I haven't heard you deny you were using some type of bot.”

My post accurately described everything that has happened to this point, and I have been accused of nothing more specific than “Computer Assistance” – which even from the TOS you pasted, could mean “collusion”, “bot”, or “another form of illegal software” (quite a catch-all that one)… is there a list of illegal software? Handgrabber? PokerTracker? PokerAce? PokerStove?

I would have loved to talk about what software I use – which I offered to do several times – but as copied in the Email, your staff already made a “final decision”. You seem to suggest I used a “bot” – what bot? Is automating button presses (hotkeys) a bot? It’s great you’re now open to discussing the situation – if your decision is “final”, though, is there even a point - are you open to reversing your decision? I carry no ill will either way – my only purpose in this forum was to alert others of what I thought was your company’s very poor handling of the situation.

And others on this forum have hit on this larger picture – that you’d drop this bombshell on a loyal customer only after he tries to cash out… that you didn’t even tell him what it was or give him a chance to explain just adds to the problem. You say you just “got new tools”… I’m sure some in this world would buy this happy coincidence, but I can confidently tell you that the readers of this forum will interpret that answer as pure BS, which of course it is.

[WSEX GM]

[ QUOTE ]
WSEX_GM: “I haven't heard you deny you were using some type of bot.”

My post accurately described everything that has happened to this point, and I have been accused of nothing more specific than “Computer Assistance” – which even from the TOS you pasted, could mean “collusion”, “bot”, or “another form of illegal software” (quite a catch-all that one)… is there a list of illegal software? Handgrabber? PokerTracker? PokerAce? PokerStove?

I would have loved to talk about what software I use – which I offered to do several times – but as copied in the Email, your staff already made a “final decision”. You seem to suggest I used a “bot” – what bot? Is automating button presses (hotkeys) a bot? It’s great you’re now open to discussing the situation – if your decision is “final”, though, is there even a point - are you open to reversing your decision? I carry no ill will either way – my only purpose in this forum was to alert others of what I thought was your company’s very poor handling of the situation.

And others on this forum have hit on this larger picture – that you’d drop this bombshell on a loyal customer only after he tries to cash out… that you didn’t even tell him what it was or give him a chance to explain just adds to the problem. You say you just “got new tools”… I’m sure some in this world would buy this happy coincidence, but I can confidently tell you that the readers of this forum will interpret that answer as pure BS, which of course it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to talk about this here?

What were you using?

We'll have our people install it and if it yields the same results, and it is not something against our rules, we will pay you.

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

[[Phill]]

Ive never played at WSEX, primarily because i heard it was a tough site to play on, but secondly because it has SEX in its name.

But i think its pretty cool that their General Manager has come here and the way they have handled the situation says a lot about the company.

OP,

The fact that you were found out after cashing out isnt such a big deal - id imagine their new anti botting tools work on a random basis but following any cashout they will check that players logs before giving them the green light.

So whilst they will (presumably) catch botters whilst they are playing, as a last line of defense they will catch cheats at the withdrawal stage.

The only unanswered questions are if the program accidentally produced a false positive, and what happens to the funds of the (alledged) cheat in question.

[DAC_]

WSEX_GM: You want to talk about this here? What were you using? We'll have our people install it and if it yields the same results, and it is not something against our rules, we will pay you.

My preference all along was to resolve this issue in private... I will take you up on your offer and send you my programs. I use PokerTracker, Poker Stove, and a HotKey program to make multitabling easier... have an Email addy I can follow up with? I'll send you anything you want to install and run.

[Ban Dright]

[ QUOTE ]
WSEX_GM: You want to talk about this here? What were you using? We'll have our people install it and if it yields the same results, and it is not something against our rules, we will pay you.

My preference all along was to resolve this issue in private... I will take you up on your offer and send you my programs. I use PokerTracker, Poker Stove, and a HotKey program to make multitabling easier... have an Email addy I can follow up with? I'll send you anything you want to install and run.

[/ QUOTE ]

are these programs allowed on WSEX?

[Annorax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WSEX_GM: You want to talk about this here? What were you using? We'll have our people install it and if it yields the same results, and it is not something against our rules, we will pay you.

My preference all along was to resolve this issue in private... I will take you up on your offer and send you my programs. I use PokerTracker, Poker Stove, and a HotKey program to make multitabling easier... have an Email addy I can follow up with? I'll send you anything you want to install and run.

[/ QUOTE ]

are these programs allowed on WSEX?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two out of three ain't bad?

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerTracker, Poker Stove, and a HotKey program to make multitabling easier

[/ QUOTE ]

are these programs allowed on WSEX?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two out of three ain't bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone got anything from the TOS about this? Or Fred could confirm for us which are allowed and which aren't.

[stickneymarc]

I got to this late and it is great. I love WSEX. I rarely play poker anywhere, but have devoted over 5 figures in bet this month alone. I know bot play exists. With handhistory issues it's impossible for any player to really prove. It is great news to find that wsex is out to catch and take the money of people cheating. I hope more get caught and hopefully ship some of the money I\m sur ewas taken from me back. Nobody should be ignorant to not know what is allowed and not allowed. Generally every "this site stole my money posts" are BS from cheaters caught trying to figure out what to do. Most sites would tell you go f'yourself. Wsex says file a complaint and plead your case. When has anyone ever seen a site respond like that? Way to go fred. Keep it up.

[ackbleh]

[ QUOTE ]


What were you using?

We'll have our people install it and if it yields the same results, and it is not something against our rules, we will pay you.

Fred Balfour
General Manager
WSEX.com

[/ QUOTE ]

#1) This is top notch customer service. I can't imagine wanting to play less on WSEX as a result of this thread... rather, it makes me want to find a way to give them business, even if it means sitting alone at higher limit tables until action develops.

#2) Without taking away from Fred's perfect responses here... which really are PERFECT... it does seem that there is opportunity for improvement on WSEX's part in that this response could have been given earlier by 'Nigel'. Given Fred's claimed newness of the software/policy, a few bumps in implementing it could be expected... but let's hope this response becomes a standard from Nigel and others at his level of the company.

The truth is, for members of 2+2, WSEX clearly offers customer service far and away above what any other site offers. Fred's not perfect I'm sure... It's scary to see one single person ask for PLO games, for example, and then see Fred claim to rearrange their development priorities and then deliver the games soon after. But nowhere else will you see someone addressing issues on a case by case basis in a detailed way who actually has the power to change or create policy based upon the situation.

[ibluffoldladies]

This thread is the main reason why I will never play poker online. There will always be cheaters and scammers that are one step ahead of security. Although, I admit there are cheats in live poker, it's much easier to cheat online, and therefore, more likely you will be cheated because of the volume.