text book laydown? or not.

HarshCharlie · #1 03-21-2007, 12:01 PM

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

No info on UTG+2. first time playing.

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Would anyone prefer to check here due to the texture of the flop?

Turn: (3.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks.

The 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was a scare card. After the 5 hits, im not sure i can beat anything (apart from 810 or A8 etc. A flush or a higher pair or better beats me. At this point, if UTG+2 was to bet, i guess my only hope is calling and hoping my club is good. getting 4.75 - 1 in this hypothetical situation does not justify a call, IMO.

what do you guys think? Would anyone lead here?

River: (3.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero? 

I have another question for you guys. if you're playing against a player for the first time, do you give them credit for good play? or, do you assume their a donkey until proven otherwise.

bozlax · #2 03-21-2007, 12:16 PM

Hero folds. If you had some kind of read, or had position on the guy, you could bet that "scare" turn, but as it is checking is fine as is folding the river.

[ QUOTE ]
if you're playing against a player for the first time, do you give them credit for good play? or, do you assume their a donkey until proven otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to get a LOT of divergent opinion on this, and you'll notice that it breaks down by how well respondents have been running lately. Personally, I dislike characterizing other players as ATMs, donators, donkeys, etc.; there are poor players out there, sure, but assuming that anybody is playing for the purpose of giving you money is foolish. I'm also more conservative than a lot of players on this forum, and as such I tend to assume that players are moderately skilled, tilt-free and at least trying to play well until shown otherwise.

Dr. Matt · #3 03-21-2007, 01:11 PM

meh I don't like the flop bet. Sooo many hands will call you with a draw or better pair... highly unlikely that you're gonna get your opponents to fold here.

If UTG bet at you on the turn it'd be a fold. Since he checked it through, I would expect to see villain have a J a good portion of the time, so the river is a call for me... but it's so so slim given pot odds.

Absolution · #4 03-21-2007, 01:20 PM

I think it's more likely that he has a T and is afraid of the club on the turn.

rjacobs003 · #5 03-21-2007, 01:59 PM

Reckon this is a clear fold. I probably check-fold the flop as well. This pot is too small for me to worry about anyways and I really don't want to donate any money on bottom pair if I don't have to. On your last question, I generally give credit for at least the first 20 hands after which you should have - albeit vague - idea of the player

huggy bear · #6 03-21-2007, 02:00 PM

i think it's helpful to think of villain's reasonable preflop range given the action. the only hands in his range that you beat are 78 and AJ, i believe.

nerdking · #7 03-21-2007, 05:15 PM

villain is unknown and aggressive when we have 3rd pair on the flop, we fold

Ampelmann · #8 03-21-2007, 05:54 PM

I don't mind the flop bet too much. Against 2 players I often bet out any pair myself. But this is a dangerous flop that hits many hands people limp with, so I wouldn't mind a c/f on the flop at all.

When UTG raises the flop I usually fold. I'm probably behind, since it can't be in his best interest to fold MP3 if he has only a FD and we're not getting sufficient odds to draw to 2 pair (and we don't know if all of our outs are good).

As played I fold the river. He has the T (or less likely a set or the straight) most of the time here.