Dealers playing in their place of work

[Jeffage]

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Thoughts?

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Stiff for life. It's bad form no matter who she is.

Jeff

[eastcoaster]

Honestly, most of the dealers I have played against have been pretty fishy as players.

[SellingtheDrama]

When I was in Vegas this summer at the Mirage, a dealer played an hour or so with us, got tapped to deal a down, and then came back to the game.

[youtalkfunny]

CLIFF'S NOTES: I agree that house employees need to be held to a higher standard when they play in their room. Unfortunately, we are not held to a merely HIGHER standard, but an IMPOSSIBLE standard. It drives me nuts.

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It's bad form no matter who she is.

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But it's not!

If a banker did it, or a fireman, or a doctor, you wouldn't think twice about it. There would be no animosity, no vows of revenge.

I was in a low limit game last month. A dealer was playing in the game. A big pot broke out, and this young dealer was ramming and jamming the turn and river in a multi-way pot. After he got his last bet in, and before anyone else had acted, he turned up a deuce. There was a deuce on board. Everyone put him on a set (or, "everybody missed their draws"), and folded. He pulled in a massive pot, and couldn't help himself: he turned up his other card, showing the table that he had just bluffed everyone out with his pair of deuces.

A few minutes later, he had to leave the game, as it was time for his shift to start. The players were furious with him. Two players, a young couple, had racked up and left as soon as that hand was over. They were pissed. As soon as our dealer left, everybody who hadn't left yet, vented about what an awful thing that dealer had done to them, and management shouldn't allow that...

Shouldn't allow what? Bluffing in a massive pot in a $3-6 game? If somebody had called him and won that huge pot, nobody would've quit the game, nobody would've grumbled. But players can't stand it when a poker room employee wins. It KILLS them.

The things Bav mentioned are deserving of criticism, because you would criticize ANY player who did such things, regardless of what they did for a living.

But if players are going to pout and quit a game and vow to never return because they got bluffed, or they got checkraised, then these players have no right to complain to the floorman about the games being short.

GRUMPY PLAYER: Seats open! Get some players over here!

BRUSH: Last time I sent you a player, you quit because you didn't like the way he played!

GRUMPY PLAYER: Well, I didn't drive down here to get checkraised by no house player!

BRUSH: Then don't complain about the empty seats, because as long as they're empty, they can't check-raise you.

I should note that when I play in the room where I work, I don't check-raise, I don't try to run the game, and I do everything I can to be a goodwill ambassador. But if I win a few pots and get ahead a little, I usually have to quit, because the players can't resist the urge to grumble about the "house player" who came over to their table to take their money. I just apologize for upsetting them, assure them that I meant no harm, and leave them to bitch about the empty seats in their game.

I behave the exact same way every time I play cards, whether I'm at work or not. The only time I hear complaints about me is when I'm in uniform.

The young dealer I mentioned with the pair of deuces? I've known him for years. I never heard anyone say a bad word about him until the night he won with a pair of 2's.

I agree that house employees need to be held to a higher standard when they play in their room. Unfortunately, we are not held to a merely HIGHER standard, but an IMPOSSIBLE standard. It drives me nuts.

[SellingtheDrama]

imo the only standard a 'house' player should be held to is behavior. Don't curse or berate the patrons, etc. Don't badmouth coworkers - dealers or floors. Nothing *that* complicated [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

(Though personally I'd be comfortable with a rule that in areas with a large amount of casinos, that dealers be discouraged, but not barred from playing in their room. I don't love the idea of a dealer in uniform playing, but in street clothes I could care less. In a less-casino heavy area such as Foxwoods, I would hate the idea of banning the dealers from playing).

[Doc]

I saw a really nasty problem because of this last time I was in vegas (just after NBA game). It's 5:30 AM at MGM and I am still gambooling at 4-8 instead of getting some sleep and getting to a lecture like I should. There is a dealer, a couple of locals, a couple of complete fish, me (fish #3), an ass from Jersey, and a middle aged lady from Socal. It's a great game, lots of running our mouths, straddling, pre-flop capping, etc.

Huge pot comes up for 4-8 I would guess about 250, but I'm not sure. River, bets, raised about 3 times, finally called. The ass from Jersey jumps up and yells "I got a boat!" and slams his cards down on the table. One of his cards briefly touches the muck face down before bouncing out." The Dealer at the time took his cards and flipped them face up. The Dealer seated in the game objects to this, saying his hand is dead. Floor gets called over, refuses to make a ruling and ships it up to the shift supervisor. My understanding is that technically the pot goes to the dealer b/c the guy mucked his hand. OTOH, you don't want to piss off the tourists. IMHO, the floor was put into a really bad situation b/c if he makes what appears to me to be the technically correct ruling, he appears to be showing favoritism to his dealer.

In this case after a lot of yelling and screaming, the shift manager made them split the pot. Needless to say, the game broke up at that point.

[RR]

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The Dealer at the time took his cards and flipped them face up. The Dealer seated in the game objects to this, saying his hand is dead. Floor gets called over, refuses to make a ruling and ships it up to the shift supervisor. My understanding is that technically the pot goes to the dealer b/c the guy mucked his hand. OTOH, you don't want to piss off the tourists. IMHO, the floor was put into a really bad situation b/c if he makes what appears to me to be the technically correct ruling, he appears to be showing favoritism to his dealer.

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The "technically correct" ruling is the best hand gets the pot. Anyone that asks the floor to kill a winning hand so they can win the second best hand is a nit.

[pfapfap]

In general I feel it's bad form for a dealer to play instead of working, at least in a room with a lot of regulars. You get the added pressure of feeling a need to win because of missed tips, and you alienate some customers if you win (even if you lose the session, a winning hand is enough). If you lose, you lose; if you win, you lose. Maybe they're impossible standards, but what's more +EV... preaching to people that they shouldn't think of you any differently, or getting more tips when you work?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I would be pissed myself, which is why I don't play much any more where I work. If I do it's almost always limit. Busting one of my regulars for a bundle would be a seriously -EV move. Generally if I'm playing elsewhere, all bets are off and all's fair in love, war and poker. Truth be told tho, there are a few I would not even play NL against at another casino.

Al

[steamboatin]

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She fires out a bet and says, "I have the nuts, save your money. I'll show you if you fold."

I thought for a moment.
I mucked.

She shows me a stone cold bluff (no draw (on flop) - no pair and NO diamond).

From a poker perspective, she did nothing wrong. Part of the game. But it did rub me a little the wrong way because I toke her a lot in the course of a week.

Thoughts?


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She needs to read the story about the goose that laid the golden eggs. I have no problem with dealers playing at the same room where they work but it is my opinion it is a bad idea. This very scenario is why it is often a very bad idea.