Will Daniel Negreanu ever win another WSOP Bracelet?

[JoaoPinto]

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You guys are right about the 400. I was focusing more on larger tournament fields. However, I still feel strongly about my statement. The main reason I say this year is his best shot is b/c I feel (hope) the ban in the US will be lifted by next year.

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You've no idea about field sizes. Daniel doesn't play in the $1,000 and $1,500 events which get the huge fields, he generally plays the $5000 + championship events. The Omaha, Stud and Pot Limit Holdem events all get 500-700 entrants, the shorthanded NLH was under 1k etc...

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please start a thread about phil hellmuth. he didn't win a bracelet from 1998-2000 (3 years).

1. None of the above mentioned players is known for bragging about their ability or putting down other people's ability.


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Your an idiot.

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The game has evolved significantly and the level of competition has increased. He hasn't adjusted his style to adapt. There is a large pool of solid players that only play at the WSOP, but don't participate in the other tourneys that DN competes in.

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Absurd. The WPT fields are the toughest there is and the deeper stacks/slower structures give better players an advantage. DN has just taken two final tables in recent months and by his own words it is because he stopped 'adapting' to the new players and plays his own game.

[NickMPK]

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Just do math and you'll see that on average he'll win one within 25-30 years, and that's being a little conservative.

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Eh, this is being a lot conservative, and assumes an average field size of 2,000. Another poster pointed out that many events have 400 or fewer, so the average is probably less than that.

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You guys are right about the 400. I was focusing more on larger tournament fields. However, I still feel strongly about my statement. The main reason I say this year is his best shot is b/c I feel (hope) the ban in the US will be lifted by next year.


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Here's some of the tournament fields from last year's WSOP:
3K Limit HE: 415 entries
1.5K Stud: 478
5K O/8: 265
50K HORSE: 143
3K O/8: 352
1.5K PLO: 158
5K Stud: 183
3K Limit HE: 341
5K NLHE 6max: 183
1.5K Razz: 409
2.5K Pot-Limit HE: 183
5K Pot-Limit HE: 378
1.5K Limit HE Shootout: 524
5K 2-7 Draw: 83

Next year, there are a whole lot more of these type of events, plus various mixed games, triple draw, etc. Many of these are scheduled to start on the same day as a NLHE event, further reducing the size of the field. There is little evidence that the internet has substantially increased the size of some of these fields.

Are you seriously saying that, given the chance to play 25 of these events each year for the next 30 years, DN will never win one again. Even a random player should win a couple!

Phil Ivey has never won a bracelet in Hold-em. Despite his 5 bracelets in other games, and his 3rd place finish in last year's 50K HORSE and 2nd place in a big Omaha event, he clearly hasn't adjusted to the improved caliber of WSOP players who mob the 1.5K NLHE events, and will likely never win another bracelet, right?

[nanoshark]

Pinto read below:

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DN hasn't proven my theory wrong.

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Phil has complained about the maniac play and was quite funny when he said the player couldn't even spell the word. However, since you eloquently called me an idiot I'd be willing to put a small amount of $ that Hellmuth wins a bracelet before Danny.

Like I said, there is a big difference b/w coming in the $ and winning an event.

[nanoshark]

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Here's some of the tournament fields from last year's WSOP:
3K Limit HE: 415 entries
1.5K Stud: 478
5K O/8: 265
50K HORSE: 143
3K O/8: 352
1.5K PLO: 158
5K Stud: 183
3K Limit HE: 341
5K NLHE 6max: 183
1.5K Razz: 409
2.5K Pot-Limit HE: 183
5K Pot-Limit HE: 378
1.5K Limit HE Shootout: 524
5K 2-7 Draw: 83


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How does this disprove my theory? If anything, it adds more credence to my statement. If he can't win with these size fields he'll never win.

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There is little evidence that the internet has substantially increased the size of some of these fields.

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I couldn't find the site that had all the stats for a given year on the same page, but to give you a comparison:

5K 2-7 Draw: 33 (2001)

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Are you seriously saying that, given the chance to play 25 of these events each year for the next 30 years, DN will never win one again. Even a random player should win a couple!

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I give the nod to a random person every time. Someone has to win the event. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Phil Ivey has never won a bracelet in Hold-em. Despite his 5 bracelets in other games, and his 3rd place finish in last year's 50K HORSE and 2nd place in a big Omaha event, he clearly hasn't adjusted to the improved caliber of WSOP players who mob the 1.5K NLHE events, and will likely never win another bracelet, right?

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You can make similar arguments about numerous players. My statement is regarding DN. Besides, comparing DN to PI is like comparing Barkley to Jordan.

[NickMPK]

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Here's some of the tournament fields from last year's WSOP:
3K Limit HE: 415 entries
1.5K Stud: 478
5K O/8: 265
50K HORSE: 143
3K O/8: 352
1.5K PLO: 158
5K Stud: 183
3K Limit HE: 341
5K NLHE 6max: 183
1.5K Razz: 409
2.5K Pot-Limit HE: 183
5K Pot-Limit HE: 378
1.5K Limit HE Shootout: 524
5K 2-7 Draw: 83


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How does this disprove my theory? If anything, it adds more credence to my statement. If he can't win with these size fields he'll never win.


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You really think not winning a bracelet one or even two years signals a long-term trend? ZOMG, Jeff Madsen is going to win 100 bracelets!

DN won $2K Limit Hold-em in 2004, with 287 entries. He also won the SHOE event in 2003, with 135 entries, and finished 2nd to Hellmuth in $3K NLHE, with 298 entries. And he has won several major HE tournaments outside the WSOP with a similar or greater number of entries. And you claim about his inability to adjust to a new caliber of play is really weakened by the big run he has had over the past year, both in the WSOP and the WPT.


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There is little evidence that the internet has substantially increased the size of some of these fields.

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I couldn't find the site that had all the stats for a given year on the same page, but to give you a comparison:

5K 2-7 Draw: 33 (2001)


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Yes, all of the events have grown gradually over the history of the WSOP. Until 2004, this included the HE and non-HE events. After 2004, the NLHE events exploded and the others kept growing gradually.


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Phil Ivey has never won a bracelet in Hold-em. Despite his 5 bracelets in other games, and his 3rd place finish in last year's 50K HORSE and 2nd place in a big Omaha event, he clearly hasn't adjusted to the improved caliber of WSOP players who mob the 1.5K NLHE events, and will likely never win another bracelet, right?

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You can make similar arguments about numerous players. My statement is regarding DN. Besides, comparing DN to PI is like comparing Barkley to Jordan.

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There really isn't anything in their past results to suggest that these two players are anything but comparable in terms of tournament skill.

[JoaoPinto]

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Pinto read below:
Phil has complained about the maniac play and was quite funny when he said the player couldn't even spell the word. However, since you eloquently called me an idiot I'd be willing to put a small amount of $ that Hellmuth wins a bracelet before Danny.

Like I said, there is a big difference b/w coming in the $ and winning an event.

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You said and i quote "None of the above mentioned players is known for bragging about their ability or putting down other people's ability." Phil Helmuth is known for doing this more than any other player in the history of Poker. My IDIOT statement is more than justified, you don't know anything about Negreanu or other famous poker players, you don't know anything about the WSOP or the field sizes and you change your argument when you are consistently proved wrong.

You are now saying the below when proved uninformed about WSOP event field sizes.

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How does this disprove my theory? If anything, it adds more credence to my statement. If he can't win with these size fields he'll never win.

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But he has won with these fields sizes. http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...?a=r&n=181
He has won 7 major titles since 2003 all with field sizes between 100 and 800.
Your whole argument is based around saying he won't win because the fields are bigger yet you are now saying he won't win because he can't beat small fields when he clearly can.

STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR ANAL PASSAGE!

[johnnyrocket]

this is a joke, there are so many more tourneys he'll play, he easily will win one.

[ImGoodToGo]

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You said and i quote "None of the above mentioned players is known for bragging about their ability or putting down other people's ability." Phil Helmuth is known for doing this more than any other player in the history of Poker. My IDIOT statement is more than justified, you don't know anything about Negreanu or other famous poker players, you don't know anything about the WSOP or the field sizes and you change your argument when you are consistently proved wrong.

You are now saying the below when proved uninformed about WSOP event field sizes.

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How does this disprove my theory? If anything, it adds more credence to my statement. If he can't win with these size fields he'll never win.

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But he has won with these fields sizes. http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...?a=r&n=181
He has won 7 major titles since 2003 all with field sizes between 100 and 800.
Your whole argument is based around saying he won't win because the fields are bigger yet you are now saying he won't win because he can't beat small fields when he clearly can.

STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR ANAL PASSAGE!

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Bingo.

[Jetto]

too tough to say.

[Degenerasian]

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Id bet way more money u see daniel turn gay instead of not wearing a bracelet. Considering many people already think he is gay.

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funny

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