I think I found one of those spots...

[cgrohman]

For this to work, I think you needed to take a ore agressive stance at some point earlier in the hand. Maybe check.3 betting the flop. I think he only folds no pair hands here. With anything else, he gets frustrated and throws the call into the pot.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
I much much much prefer check/3 betting the flop. I think it's much more believable as an 8, and you can clean up your Jack and Ten outs from the two other players in the hand. He might even have a similar hand to yours and fold on the end if you fire all barrels. I would check 3 bet and lead the turn and make a decision whether or not to bluff the river.

As played I think you should donk the turn, this totally looks like a monster and you'll never get raised by less than an 8, so you can check/fold the river if you spike a pair easily.

Since you didn't do that I actually don't think this river play works often unless the villain has a busted straight draw himself, if he has a pocket pair he is going to be really suspicious. I do think that a river bet would have been a mistake though, as after the turn checks through you will get looked up too much for just one bet.

Also IMO the instaraise shows weakness instead of strength. You need to sell this.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent post chris.

joker, regarding the first hand, a c-bet on an ace flop is 2 barrells, not one (welcome to medium stakes holdem [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) oh, and also: i tied your score on cityjumper.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I much much much prefer check/3 betting the flop. I think it's much more believable as an 8, and you can clean up your Jack and Ten outs from the two other players in the hand. He might even have a similar hand to yours and fold on the end if you fire all barrels. I would check 3 bet and lead the turn and make a decision whether or not to bluff the river.

As played I think you should donk the turn, this totally looks like a monster and you'll never get raised by less than an 8, so you can check/fold the river if you spike a pair easily.

Since you didn't do that I actually don't think this river play works often unless the villain has a busted straight draw himself, if he has a pocket pair he is going to be really suspicious. I do think that a river bet would have been a mistake though, as after the turn checks through you will get looked up too much for just one bet.

Also IMO the instaraise shows weakness instead of strength. You need to sell this.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of agree. I'm trying to think what he's representing here that he'd play that way. The raise looks odd to me.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks to me like villain was scared when hero coldcalled on a paired flop, but now has decided his 55 is good after all. PJ's random river checkraise isn't going to change this. The time to win this pot was on the flop.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

If anything, it helps set up a bluff on a later street.

b

[benwood]

The river bet does look odd,& it's probably a weak play against decent player,but against these guys,with your 'timid'image,I think that it's a good play.

[djeric1]

Given particular opponent believing you're not the bluffing type, I like taking a stab at this decent size pot (like 9.5 BB?) when there's enough of a chance he's on air. Only thing is, if he's observant at all, I'm sure he'd realize there's no way you're ever checking a 9 or an 8 (or better hand) on the river, so this play really shouldn't work against any thinking player. That said, against the right opponent (i.e., a laggy guy not paying close attention), I think it's a profitable play...

[rafiki]

hey someone wanna clear something up for me.

Let's say there was 10 big bets in the pot.

We bet 1 as a bluff on the river. Do we only have to make him fold 10% of the time for the play to break even. Am I viewing that right ?

[Grease]

I've been reading what DD wrote, and I think he's spot on here. Our insta-raise looks really odd, since we just called the flop and checked the turn (maybe it could be viewed as a missed C/R?) If he c/3-bet the flop and follow through on the turn, I think it makes our line look a lot more believeable, and I like it more if you think your overs are clean as well. I can see the PFR calling you with just about anything based on the pot size/curiousity given the way you played the hand.

But what hand would play like this? If you missed your C/R on the turn with trips, wouldn't you just lead the river instead of trying to do it again? It's just hard for me to believe your bluff, even if you're viewed as a passive player.

[benwood]

You're exactly right,& Joker would be wrong to try to bluff a player like you out of this hand,but it's a different matter against guys with poor hand reading abilities.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You're exactly right,& Joker would be wrong to try to bluff a player like you out of this hand,but it's a different matter against guys with poor hand reading abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except he's doing this into 3 opponents and not just the one in question. But you're right, it could work against the right table. Especially if they see monsters easily.

I still think he could've accomplished the same thing by playing it differently and more convincingly using lines others have suggested. Unless OP didn't plan on really doing this until the situation presented itself.

I'm still trying to figure why no flop 3 bet if he thinks his outs are clean.

b