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#1
03-19-2007, 09:46 PM
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Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
I saw this hand a couple weeks ago, and I've tried to imagine the possible hands that Ivey could have check raised the river with but I really can't come up with anything concrete. I'm pretty sure that it is for value though I haven't watched his game enough to know his c/r frequency on the river. I would think that Ivey would get more value in the long run by just betting the river, but if he mixes value c/r's with bluff c/r's then it is probably good for metagame. I know we probably will never find out, but what do you guys think? Was this a bluff or for value?
Ivey is in the small blind Full Tilt Poker Pot Limit Omaha Ring game Blinds: $200/$400 3 players Converter Stack sizes: Button: $67798.50 SB: $42373 BB: $16996 Pre-flop: (3 players) <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $1400</font>, SB calls, BB folds. Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3200, 2 players) SB checks, Button checks. Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3200, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">SB bets $2400</font>, Button calls. River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($8000, 2 players) SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $7800</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $23600</font>, This hand struck interest in me because I play PLO and NLHE, but can probably count on one hand the times I've c/r the river. I know it won't be +EV in the long run at the levels I play at, but at what limit do the players become aggressive enough for a river c/r to be used with regular frequency? 
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#2
03-19-2007, 09:59 PM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
It actually looks quite suspicious to me and I would guess Phil was bluffing.
The thing is button's flop+turn play looks quite a bit like an overpair. It could also be a draw or trips, but on balance if Ivey actually has a monster I don't think he c-rzes here. He has a good chance of getting paid by an overpair if he leads out, and while it's true he could induce a bluff from a draw, draws are not very likely on a paired turn.
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#4
03-19-2007, 10:17 PM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
[ QUOTE ]
your hand history shows 8 of clubs on both flop and turn [/ QUOTE ] sorry hand converted messing up, fixed now
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#5
03-19-2007, 10:31 PM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
i like this spot for a C/R either way. i would be pretty disappointed if ivey didn't have both a killer and a total bluff here sometimes.
when i look over my hands I always find places like this where i think a c/r would have been perfect, but they can be so hard to catch while in the action that I don't think I do it enough.
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#7
03-20-2007, 12:43 AM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
[ QUOTE ]
that's unfortunate... [/ QUOTE ] No - it's unfortunate that you suck at reading because I said its not profitable to do it at the levels I play at. There's no point in check raising if your mostly facing people who aren't that aggressive.
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#8
03-20-2007, 12:55 AM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
It looks like value to me but I haven't watched Ivey play PLO much. I doubt Aba checks behind any two pair+ hand on the flop so it's very unlikely he has a boat or straight. I think Ivey hoped Aba had a bare 6 and was checkraising a boat or straight for value. I think he could checkraise bluff a bare 6 or air too but with the line Aba takes I think it's likely he gets looked up by a pretty wide range which includes at least QQ-AA.
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#9
03-20-2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
TheRempel - do you c/r on the river much at the level you play at? How good of a read do you usually need and what other things do you take into consideration with metagame?
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#10
03-20-2007, 01:26 AM
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Re: Phil Ivey River C/R vs sbrugby ($200/$400)
Shorthanded I am much more likely to do it. For value it's generally when I make a pretty hidden draw and my opponent is likely to pot the river and has a fair chance of calling the c/r. As a bluff, it's more likely when my opponent can't really have a strong hand but will call if I lead and bet/fold if I don't. Too tired to go into it more right now.
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