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#51
03-19-2007, 04:04 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] darynisrite, your smallish bet shows them you have a hand , them calling is retarded, if you flip over something like 9 high then maybe thats a little dickish but only slightly [/ QUOTE ] No, I'd say a pure bluff into a dry sidepot would be very dickish. If you can't win, a bluff like that is a lot like chip dumping--you're protecting the all-in shortstack with no possible gain for yourself. Seriously dickish. My own rule in such situations is to use betting to indicate to my fellow players if I have anything. If I flop two pair or better, I'm betting it. I'm telling 'em I have something I'm pretty sure is good, and I can no longer just check it down and wait to be drawn out on by one of the others still active. Nobody's ever expressed unhappiness with me over this. And if someone plays back at me, the game is back on ferreal--I'm now in a battle for a serious pile of chips and may be able to do damage to two opponents instead of one. [/ QUOTE ] YES That's why I Bet 10,000 into a 33,000 Pot.... It was an "I HAVE A HAND THAT CAN KNOCK OUT THE BUBBLE, SO GET OUTTA THE WAY OR GIVE ME YOUR MONEY" bet But, I must be honest, I do like some of these "keep the bubble in, and/or try to win the side pot" arguments.... true food for thought. and here I was just worried about being a Dick. (Maybe the most Dickish thing, is to worry about being Dickish") 
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#52
03-19-2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with it. The J-10 guy completely misplayed his hand by not betting the flop anyway. The guy complaining about calling with bottom pair is a nit. [/ QUOTE ] That hit me just after the hand.... J-T must've thought he was best.... he should've been the one with a 10K or so bet on the flop.... 100% I would've folded right there. Now, the rest of the Story.... As we all know, ther RIVER Givith and the RIVER Taketh away..... I was knocked out in 5th place of this Tourney with an Ad-Kd Post Flop All-In (With a piared A on the Flop) by Big Stack who actually called with a T-8o and hit his Straight on the River (No, I didn't call him "Dickish"...but Phil Helmuth would've)
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#53
03-19-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
I can't find the source right now but I've seen an interview with Gavin Smith where he advocates bluffing into a dry side pot on the bubble when the all-in player is extrenely short stacked and would not be much of a factor if he triples or quadruples up. [/ QUOTE ] I would like to read that... but, as for my situation... had the bubble won, he would've quadupled up, to 36K (and to about 6th or 7th place) One more double up would've put him squarly in the middle of the pack just about even with me,...if I lost the 9k, I would've been at about 70K,) so I can see what you're talking about, if the bubble, even after winning the hand, would still be not much of a threat, but if a bluff would cause the bubble to win the hand and give him a good chance at really staying in the money, I just don't see that as being a good play.
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#54
03-19-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
Screw em. I would've repopped PF. [/ QUOTE ] With TWO callers to the ALL IN... Me with a hand that I would've folded had I not been priced in... Mister you have some serious brass (Although, at this moment, I'm not really sure whether the Brass is in your crotch or a bit higher up. ...but thanks for the input)
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#55
03-19-2007, 09:55 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
I wouldn't bet the JT there. Especially right on the money bubble.
What if all in guy has 88. River 8 beats JT, but not you. In fact, this hand shows exactly why JT shouldn't bet. On a JT7 board, KT (allin) is drawing dead to JT and Q9. I guess it could come KK or KT, but that's about 2%
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#56
03-19-2007, 10:03 PM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Screw em. I would've repopped PF. [/ QUOTE ] With TWO callers to the ALL IN... Me with a hand that I would've folded had I not been priced in... Mister you have some serious brass (Although, at this moment, I'm not really sure whether the Brass is in your crotch or a bit higher up. ...but thanks for the input) [/ QUOTE ] lol I was just kidding. I would've played it the exact same way, and I would've underbet the pot to try to get called by the donkeys who called you down with one pair.
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#57
03-20-2007, 09:41 AM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Screw em. I would've repopped PF. [/ QUOTE ] With TWO callers to the ALL IN... Me with a hand that I would've folded had I not been priced in... Mister you have some serious brass (Although, at this moment, I'm not really sure whether the Brass is in your crotch or a bit higher up. ...but thanks for the input) [/ QUOTE ] lol I was just kidding. I would've played it the exact same way, and I would've underbet the pot to try to get called by the donkeys who called you down with one pair. [/ QUOTE ] LOL I figured you were Kidding, but I couldn't resist the jab.... Do you think the 10K bet was a bit too much, (Maybe I only got 2 callers because I got lucky)...? I thought about betting 5K for a second, but when caller 1 started tapping the table during my turn and trying to get the dealers attn. ... (like he was non-verbally saying to me..."What are 'thinking' about and wasting time with the blinds going up so fast.... this IS a check down") I had to clearly tell the dealer "Hold up a second" because it looked like he had assumed that caller 1 was checking because I had also checked (and the dealer was already looking at the next player for action...) I thought for another 3-4 seconds, then said "Ten Thousand" as I tossed in my chips... Caller 1 looked, at first, amazed, and then with an amazed-slash-disgusted look on his face, (But without seeming to really give it any thought) threw in his two 5K chips, caller 2 has his chips in even before caller 1. I had even thought about going All-In for a second or two, but thought that it would probably scare everyone away and I was hoping for at least 1 caller. With my bet and the 2 calls, the pot went up from 33K to 63K so I almost doubled up my pre-hand stack, even without an All-In bet. I thought I played it right at the time, until the "Dickish" remark added the slightest amount of doubt. I haven't been playing poker all that long (Less than 4 months live, less than 6 months online) I've been doing fairly well, but the nuances of live player interaction are something that you really can't get out of a book. After reading all the responses to this post, I now really do feel like I DID do the right thing, both technically and ethically.
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#58
03-20-2007, 10:32 AM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
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Flop Js - Th - 7d check, check , all-in/pot sized bet ( Jc - Th ) Fine with that? [/ QUOTE ] >RE: AngusThermopyle your Location..." 'twixt Titania and Oberon " Wouldn't that be... Uranus (Yours, or mine?) LOL
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#59
03-20-2007, 10:55 AM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't bet the JT there. Especially right on the money bubble. What if all in guy has 88. River 8 beats JT, but not you. In fact, this hand shows exactly why JT shouldn't bet. On a JT7 board, KT (allin) is drawing dead to JT and Q9. I guess it could come KK or KT, but that's about 2% [/ QUOTE ] 2% ... yup. but ya' never know. Last night... Player to my left goes ALL-In, folds around to me. I call with As-Ks he laughes... shows Ad-Kh Flop... 4c 6s Jh 2 or 3 people say out loud.."Chop Pot" 1 person jokes about a flush draw... You can Guess what happens next... yeah, ya know it... Runner Runner Spades I win Me and the other player laugh so hard we almost cry.. (maybe he DID cry a bit...LOL) Odds of that, barely over 1%
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#60
03-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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Re: All-In Check Down Etiquette ???
Live players are generally better at whining than poker. Ignore the former, its just background noise.
regarding the bet - 10k was not a bad bet since it got paid 20k back. A 20k bet probably gets one caller - JT. Maybe a hair more gets 2 callers for more equity, but more than likely, you picked a nice zero risk/good return bet (not the maximum EV bet, but a high EV, lower varience one).
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