Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games

[phydaux]

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I dont know if i particularly like spiral bound either, i was just wondering if they were any easier to study from. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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I guess it depends on how you like to read.

I like to read sitting in an armchair. So I don't mind holding the book with both hands. So, 2+2's stiff binding doesn't bother me that much.

My wife likes to read her grad school text books while laying on her stomach in bed. So she likes books that lay flat.

[Guy McSucker]

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Thats correct. Glue in that situation is just temporary as the binding process takes place. Thats why book collectors often look at the spines, the binding, and the seam.


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So what did you mean when you said that all the hardcover books you own are "the same way. LOTS of glue"

Not being combative here; I just suddenly find myself intrigued about how books are bound! Also I was a bit bemused by Mason's implication that hardcover books fall apart after a few decades because the glue dries out - lots of libraries, hell even my parents, have books which are hundreds of years old, have been read and re-read often by ordinary mortals, and are perfectly intact.

So is it the case that there's a big difference between "real" hardcover binding and what we often see in the mass-produced books of today, and that that difference is essentially in the work done by the glue?

Guy.

[dragon14]

When I saw that there were 20+ new posts on this thread yesterday I was excited and thinking that Stox's new book was being released early.

Unfortunately we were instead subjected to talk of a "conspiracy" to bring 2+2 down. I hope the "conspirators" are caught soon and I hope all on this board will be vigilant in weeding out "the enemies of 2+2".

My favorite quote is TT stating that others only care about themselves and not what is best for 2+2 as if members of this forum are employees or stockholders in 2+2. Actually, TT we are consumers with opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

[phydaux]

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My favorite quote is TT stating that others only care about themselves and not what is best for 2+2 as if members of this forum are employees or stockholders in 2+2.

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sigh....


I had hoped it wouldn't have to come to this, but I see now there's no way around it. The time has come for an economics lesson.

Wally Cooke is a publisher. He publishes books in a highly competative niche market. But that's OK for Wally, because he's sure that Cooke's Books have the best content of any other books out there.

Wally and his authors work hard for many months and come up with what they belive is the best book ever written in their niche. Cooke's Books plays the printer up front to print the first run. Wally then sends hudreds and hundreds of books to the major book chains and on-line booksellers.

Wally then counts all that fat cash and shares it with his authors, right? Actually, no.

In order to get his book into the major book chains and on-line booksellers, Wally had to negotiate terms. Common terms are something like "Net 90" where the sellers keep the books for 90 days, then only pay for the books sold in that period.

"You don't get paid on the sell-in," they tell Wally," you get paid on the sell-through." "I see..." said Wally, but at the moment he really didn't.

So Wally only has to wait 90 days, and then he can pay back the money he borrowed to pay the printer, plus get back all that lovely profit? Actually, no.

On the 85th day, the bookseller sends back all the unsold copies of the books. In this case, all of them. "Why didn't you sell any books?" Wally asks. "Your bookcover was booring, so no one picked the book up off the shelf to look at it." "Oh..." says Wally.

So Wally and his authors write another book. And they hire a fabulous graphic artist to make a fantastic cover. Again, Wally borrows money to pay for the printing up-front, and then sends hundreds of copies out to booksellers at net 90 terms.

And again, on the 85th day, the booksellers send the books back. Most of them are still in good sellable condition, but many have torn & worn covers and cracked bindings.

"Why are so many books ruined?" Wally asks. "The interesting cover made the customers pick up the book and look at it," they answer, "but with the handeling they quickly became 'shelf worn' and your cheap binding broke too easily. No one wants to buy a worn, broken book."

Now Wally was angry with himself, because he was the one who told the printer to use inexpensive paper & glue. He had wanted to save money, but it only ended up costing him more.

Again Cooke's Books publishes a book. This book sells, Cooke's Books first book to make a profit. But still Wally gets back many mangeled, unsellable books. "Damaged in shipping," they tell Wally. "Use better boxes."

Eventually Wally learned how to publish books that his customers would pick up in stores and buy, and that if they didn't buy would be returned to him in still-sellable condition. And because he was passionate and had integrity, his books still had the best content of any book out there.

And yet, Wally's customers complained day after day after day. But Wally lived happily ever after, until the end of his days.

[7n7]

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I had hoped it wouldn't have to come to this, but I see now there's no way around it. The time has come for an economics lesson.

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You owe me 2 minutes of my life back Mr. Phydaux.

[Gelford]

Yep ... That Gun !!!


After hours and hours of brainstorming it finally hit him, Hey Guys ... Let's put a gun on the cover !!

[phydaux]

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I had hoped it wouldn't have to come to this, but I see now there's no way around it. The time has come for an economics lesson.

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You owe me 2 minutes of my life back Mr. Phydaux.

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But sir, you are far richer and wiser now for those two brief minutes you spent.

[Mason Malmuth]

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Not being combative here; I just suddenly find myself intrigued about how books are bound! Also I was a bit bemused by Mason's implication that hardcover books fall apart after a few decades because the glue dries out - lots of libraries, hell even my parents, have books which are hundreds of years old, have been read and re-read often by ordinary mortals, and are perfectly intact.


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My whole front cover of Super/System is completely seperated from the book. The pages are stiched in but the front cover was glued onto the spine as well as attached by paper. Also, I have a brown cover version, not a silver one. It was still a B&G Publishing book and I bought it in 1983.

As for Million Dollar Blackjack, even though it is a hard cover, all the pages are glued in and are now falling out. I bought it in 1981.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

Some of you may think that what phydaux wrote is a little silly, but it's actually more accurate than many here realize. On a related thought, while we have become very successful, I don't see how most publishers in our field will survive, and most of the authors who are now writing books will discover that their long term royalties are negligent, and many of those who got advances, won't get any more.

Somehow, we have managed to avoid all of this and pay far higher royalties than virtually anyone else. But these issues have impacted the decisions we have made and continue to make.

Best wishes,
Mason

[*TT*]

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So what did you mean when you said that all the hardcover books you own are "the same way. LOTS of glue"

Not being combative here; I just suddenly find myself intrigued about how books are bound!

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I can hook you up with a paper buying specialist or a book binder if you have specific questions, send me a PM if your really that interested , I'm happy to help!