BB 54s flop FD + GS. Shorthanded.

TJO · #1 03-15-2007, 01:11 PM

FR table has just recently gotten shorthanded.

UTG is LPP (33/0/0.25)
CO is TAG (17/10/2)
SB is LPP (60/2/0.5)
Only 30 hands for each opponent.

Party Poker (Beginners table)
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.15/$0.3
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8SB, 4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Should I had raised here somewhere with my strong draw? I have about 25% equity from flop to turn and little over 50% equity from flop to river. So maybe I should've done some valuebetting?

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8BB, 4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, CO raises, SB 3-bets, Hero ????

I'm sandwiched here in the middle. What should I do? Just keep on calling?

fretelöo · #2 03-15-2007, 01:24 PM

I like the first flop call. A raise here will just scare people off. However, there's a case for 3betting after CO raises. I don't think UTG will fold.

Yes, you have to call the turn...

nichtsnutz · #3 03-15-2007, 01:34 PM

I definately 3-bet the flop after CO's raise. If UTG folds due to that the 3-bet was basically even money (or maybe even slightly better thanks to the gutshot) but the chance that he will call makes this +EV.

Turn. CALL! So SB has an Ace and probably CO as well. You're only afraid of AK and KK really so you'd even call this if they told you in advance they were going to cap.

On the river if your hand gets there (except the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) you join the raisefest. If it doesn't you might want to think about folding your 5-high (depending on your metagame considerations).

BionicComma · #4 03-15-2007, 01:41 PM

Preflop is ok.

On the flop with a FD and GSSD you are good about 45% overall. I would think that the value play here is to call with the intention of 3-betting if its raised behind you. With just a call you pay only 1SB for the turn, and if you 3bet it then you force everyone to come along and build the biggest pot. Its the best of both worlds! A flop raise is only more appropriate if you want to push out other draws, which in this case would be FDs that aren't folding anyway or SDs who you want drawing at you (since you really are after a flush).

On the turn you are putting in a minimum 2 bets to make this call, assuming CO comes along again you're getting 7.5 to 1 with 12 outs so I think you have to chase the draw here and hope someone hasn't filled up.

The river is a heartbreaking fold if you miss your draws or the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] comes off. You're obviously not showing down a pair.

^
One man's opinion, eager to see other responses.

tyler_cracker · #5 03-15-2007, 01:43 PM

fret and nicht got it: 3bet flop, call turn.

TJO · #6 03-15-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn. CALL! So SB has an Ace and probably CO as well. You're only afraid of AK and KK really so you'd even call this if they told you in advance they were going to cap.

[/ QUOTE ]I think A3 or 33 could also be in CO's range.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn you are putting in a minimum 2 bets to make this call, assuming CO comes along again you're getting 7.5 to 1 with 12 outs so I think you have to chase the draw here and hope someone hasn't filled up.

[/ QUOTE ]I think all my 12 outs are not clean. If I'm not already drawing dead I must catch a flush card that doesn't match the villains' other hole card. 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is a bad card too as you mentioned. But with 10-11 outs it's still very profitable to call.

I'm also drawing live against the majority of the hand combinations that villains might have. So I guess there's no way around it: I made a bad fold. Even if it saved me 3BB this time.

BionicComma · #7 03-15-2007, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turn. CALL! So SB has an Ace and probably CO as well. You're only afraid of AK and KK really so you'd even call this if they told you in advance they were going to cap.

[/ QUOTE ]I think A3 or 33 could also be in CO's range.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn you are putting in a minimum 2 bets to make this call, assuming CO comes along again you're getting 7.5 to 1 with 12 outs so I think you have to chase the draw here and hope someone hasn't filled up.

[/ QUOTE ]I think all my 12 outs are not clean. If I'm not already drawing dead I must catch a flush card that doesn't match the villains' other hole card. 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is a bad card too as you mentioned. But with 10-11 outs it's still very profitable to call.

I'm also drawing live against the majority of the hand combinations that villains might have. So I guess there's no way around it: I made a bad fold. Even if it saved me 3BB this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 13 if we count the 3, which we dont, so 12 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

TJO · #8 03-15-2007, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have 13 if we count the 3, which we dont, so 12 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]This is no big deal here but I still think we have only 11 outs. 8 flush cards (one of them is 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) and 3 other twos.

BionicComma · #9 03-15-2007, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have 13 if we count the 3, which we dont, so 12 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]This is no big deal here but I still think we have only 11 outs. 8 flush cards (one of them is 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) and 3 other twos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youre right.

My bad.

Big Folder · #10 03-15-2007, 04:26 PM

I c/r the field once CO raises the flop. The other option is to raise right away, but I dont know if thats the best plan since you don't want to blow everyone out of the pot with just 4-high. You do have 12 outs though and tons of equity so raise.

Turn, you just have to call, you are drawing to a big hand and these clowns will get crushed!