sklansky preflop advice

[rzk]

hey guys, i recently looked through the hpfap book and was pretty surprised by some of the preflop advice. some of the group 8 hands are really crappy like 23s and it recommends limping with them on the button if there are callers. do you relly do this with 23s and the like?

[Leader]

HPFAP is really about mid/high live full ring. Small stakes shorthanded online is very different. Much looser and much much more aggressive. I suggest you read over the sticky. There's a link to a chart that will get you started.

To answer your question, I don't think I've ever played 23s outside the blinds. Though at a full table there are spots for it.

[rzk]

i've been more or less following the chart up till now. but im wondering - if the hpfap advice works in full ring after first 4 seats folded, why shouldn't it work for shorthanded? especially since as u said, the players are looser and more aggro - meaning if they limp they have a weaker hand

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
i've been more or less following the chart up till now. but im wondering - if the hpfap advice works in full ring after first 4 seats folded, why shouldn't it work for shorthanded? especially since as u said, the players are looser and more aggro - meaning if they limp they have a weaker hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you played live? The players are very very different. Most are extremely passive and predictable. A lot of the advice in that book assumes that.

I just took a minute to look at exactly what you're refering to. I believe it's this:

"If you are on the button, a lot of players are already in, and the pot is not raised, you can call with many additional hands, This includes those hands in Group 8..." p.38

Group 8 is A9o, K9o, Q9o J8o, J7s, T8o, 96s, 87o, 85s, 76o, 65o, 54o, 42s, 32s p.16

My interpretation of "a lot of players" is like 5 or 6, which is impossible in 6-max, but relatively frequent in live full ring games.

[rzk]

sorry, you are right, i got a little confused. what i should have said is that it recommends limping with 53s, 43s (group 7, not 8) otb if there are callers (p.37). but these are still pretty crappy aren't they.

as for the players assumed to be passive, on p. 14 it says that players have become tougher and more aggressive and this has raised the value of suited hands. so even if they assumed passive players, by their logic this advice should apply even more to tougher and more aggressive players.

[Pondy]

I've recently dug that book out for another read and my advice is use the chart provided here AND read HPFAP Shorthanded section (later pages). Its a very good section and will help your game.

The rest of the book really is aimed at $10/$20 or higher.

[Burnsabre]

The value of HPFAP when its talking about starting hand advice is the not specific hand recommendations, cus as Leader has pointed out, its not really the same situation. The value comes from the discussion in WHY certain hands and certain categories of hands are better in some situations. Example.. AQo you'd want 1 or 2 opponents, well as AQs, the more the merrier because it provides 3 ways to win large multipots, not just 2. Similarly, raising medium to large suited connectors with alot of limpers, even out of SB and BB (Although I don't know if HPFAP specifically recommended that).

[Pondy]

[ QUOTE ]
Similarly, raising medium to large suited connectors with alot of limpers, even out of SB and BB (Although I don't know if HPFAP specifically recommended that).


[/ QUOTE ]

Can you tell me why you would make this play ? just curious, as I recently posted stating i would raise suited connectors in a mutliway and got hammered for saying it.

[Burnsabre]

Because they play well in multipots and have more than their fair share of equity... Plus, its easy to bail cheaply when you flop blanks.

[F Paulsson]

[ QUOTE ]
Because they play well in multipots and have more than their fair share of equity... Plus, its easy to bail cheaply when you flop blanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
... And because the bigger pot encourages other people to stay in with very low equity on the flop and onwards when you flop a very strong hand (or a draw to a very strong hand). In a loose/passive game, raising before the flop may create a situation where the pot gets big enough that people stay in with overcards and stuff on the flop, effectively padding you with an equity surplus for your strong draw.

A fairly common misconception - not (yet) repeated here - is that the raise is also good because it gives you enough pot odds to continue on the flop, but this is clearly incorrect.