Hurray for Hand Reading

[DesertCat]

A straightforward hand reading tells me A has either a weak Q, or 34. A check the turn because he thought he was behind (weak Q) after B called the flop cr, or because he was trying to buy a free card with the only draw out there (34). A pushes river because he just chopped with KQ/QJ and wants to drive them out, or because he made the nuts and wants to get paid. It's a less than pot sized bet.

B is confused and just wanted to make a showdown with an underpair or a Q without an ace. Or a set he thought he'd trap with. B should call with any Q or better.

Joined late, but IMO, when BB makes a thin value bet with an A (which I agree is very rare), I don't think he pushes. I think he "block" bets more often. In general, I think he check/calls when he hits his A anyway.

I still think 34s is very possible for BB. As for Button, he either has AQ, KQ, QJ or sometimes a mid PP. He only should call with AQ.

I like BB's river push regardless of what he has.

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MLG,
I like your river play a lot. There is no way that I could have had the villain on an A there. I thought that he had a KQ type hand and that he would dump it.

What was your plan for the river if a random baby card fell? Was your flop cr just a one time steal bet that you were giving up on if a bluff card did not fall? Were you check/folding if a Q rivered (I certaintly would have)?

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KQ= A4, although most people won't realize that.

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I disagree. A4 /= KQ because us having A4 makes it a lot less likely that Villain also has an A.

[DonT77]

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"lets practice hand reading" ... I used to do a bunch of these threads and its been a while.

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Glad you did this again MLG. I find that these types of exercises are MUCH better than a standard 'what should I do here with xx' type of questions. A player needs to be thinking as much about how he and his ROHs are being perceived as how he perceives his opponent and his opponent's ROHs.

Knowing how you and your range of hands are being perceived is a key to making moves, getting value at the right times, and knowing when to make proper laydowns.


As for the hand (not read results yet), this is probably a thinly veiled bad beat post. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] MLG was the BB with 34s and jammed his rivered straight into villain's rivered full house (AA).

But seriously, this hand (as most are) is much about reads. Against 'typical' players:

PF-
PlayerA/BB - pair, two broadway, SCs
PlayerB/Btn - any two

ATF-
PlayerA/BB - has not narrowed his range much IMO, his CR could be making a move
PlayerB/Btn - his CB has not narrowed his range much, but his call of the CR probably means he has at least one pair or the only draw out there (34). I actually think that in most cases Btn has at least TPTK here since a lot of the time the BB will bet out the turn after CRing - so calling here with < TPTK has reverse implied odds. I think a lot of players in the BB are going to jam ATT with these stacks after CRing the flop - so I think Btn needs to be ready for that.

ATT-
PlayerA/BB-by checking he has not narrowed his range, it is still quite wide. The CR ATF could have been a move with air, a test with a middle pp, or a mix-it-up play with a strong hand. Still PP, 2Brdwy, or SCs.
PlayerB/Btn- Checking behind ATT means he is either still worried by A's CR ATF and has a medium holding hoping for a cheapish showdown or he is very strong and hopes to induce action from A after the river.

River-
A pushes - Given that A perceives B as at least semi-strong and giving > 2:1 pot odds, he's gotta think that B is going to be calling here a fair amount of the time (although calling does represent most of B's stack). So, I think A can beat AQ - which has now became 2 pair, so 'most times' I expect A to show AQ,55,22,34s,QQ,AA.
Player B on the btn has to be thinking that his call ATF was representing some strength, and now A is pushing into him while giving him pretty good odds for a call. I'd rate A's primary range as AQ+, so AQ is the worse hand I'm calling with just because A could be jamming with more than just his primary range. B's range (IMO) is AQ/KQ/AA/KK/QQ/34/55/22 and I think he calls with most of that range.


The key to this hand IMO is playerB's call of the CR ATF and the pot odds being given ATR - these two things lead me to think that the ranges are higher than most people generally expect.

[DonT77]

lol about how far off I was on this, but knowing MLG was the BB now - it does change the ranges for both players significantly.

[kingwood kid]

Am I right in thinking that button could reasonably raise PF and make a continuation bet with ATC, especially when no A/K flops? The flat call of the r-r changes things; from there I had him on Q-decent kicker. J most likely.
Knowing that he called the river, 34 is also a possibility, as the first 2 bets were bluffs; the call had outs and disguise, and the turn check is a lose-no-more play.

The BB I had on AQ. It explains a call and c/r on flop and river push. Check turns are common in this spot.

Given the actual hands, I would have played same way PF, but folded in hurry on flop. Which raises the question: do they both suck, or am I making the classic fish move of thinking the cards are important?

[SeattleJake]

This is gold. I would LOVE for more IMs like this to be posted. The whole thread is good, but this in particular is very meaningful.

(Bump.)