Steal attempt first hand at the final table

[cjx]

So, I'm at a cheapy local bar tourney. We just assembled the final table of 9 players. Pays top 6. I have no read on the villains as they are all new to me other than my general impression that just about all the players are passive and straightforward. As with most of these tourneys the blind structure is pretty brutal which leads us to the hand:

Blinds 200, 400 (going up in a couple minutes to 400, 800)
Folded around to me ~3200 chips.
Button has 1800, SB 3000, BB has at least 9000 he is the chip leader by a pretty good margin.

I picked up J7s and raise to what? 800 seems weakish, 1000 or 1200 pretty much commits me and an open push is a pretty big overbet. I honestly don't think I can afford to fold given the blinds will be up to 400, 800 by the time it gets around to me and this is a good spot to take a stab, but then again I don't know anything about these players.

cjx

[Sherman]

I'd typically fold, unless I was quite confident that something like a min-bet could take it down (I would have to know quite abit about the other players).

I think you have to fold here and wait to open shove something a bit stronger. I'd also look for an opportunity to Stop N Go on my big blind.

Raising and getting called or someone shoving over the top of you is a real bad result here.

[Fiksdal]

Is your position the cutoff? 3 players behind you?

Anyway, if you are going to raise here, you have to go all-in. Any other raise commites you to the pot.

I do like an all-in here. You only have to get through 3 players, who all have stacks you can hurt. And you have a chance to pick up t600, which would be a very nice addition to your stack. And of course, even if you are called your hand is very rarely dominated and has decent equity against some calling ranges.

You also need to get chips fast, because the blinds are going up and you need a stack for fold equity at that point.

It's basically some kind of crapshoot at this point, but you're gonna have to try and make the best out of it.

[Sherman]

Yeah, I wasn't paying close enough attention to the OP. I was thinking more about how awful a standard raise was then whether pushing is profitable. From the CO, I think pushing is probably correct here. You increase your stack by a sizeable amount and you have a hand that is likely not to be dominated if called.

Sherman

[kurtkatt]

push its not an overbet at all and u might not get a better chance. push here is better than have to play an a10 without FE a few hands later

[cjx]

So, I raised it to 800 with the intention of folding to a reraise (unless it was the tiny stack) or folding to a stop n go, otherwise pushing if checked to on any flop. Almost immediately after I made the bet I glanced left and saw the big stack. I just didn't pay enough attention to tell that he was in the big blind. It was an easy call for him given his stack so my "steal" had pretty much 0 fold equity and that I think was a mistake. I agree that the bet needed to be bigger to have any fold equity and anything bigger really required me to just go all in.

blinds 200, 400
stacks
hero 3200 Jh7h
villain (big blind) 9000
So, the action. Folded to me in the cut off, I raise to 800, folded to the big blind who calls. Flop is Kh Tc 6s, he checks, I move all in as planned. Given the somewhat awful preflop play, what do we think about the flop plan/play?

cjx

[eigenvalue]

Your M is 5, there are only 3 players left to act, the players at the table seem to be somewhat passive. What else are you asking for, this is a poooossshhhhhhh!
And if you get called, your hand has some showdown value because it is not dominated by AK or AQ for example.

[nath]

raising less than an open push is cover-your-eyes awful

umm i guess you have to push the flop because big blind could/should have ATC here. hope he didn't look you up!

[grafyx]

[ QUOTE ]
So, I raised it to 800 with the intention of folding to a reraise

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Wow this is terrible.

[cjx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, I raised it to 800 with the intention of folding to a reraise

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Wow this is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the advice I came for heh. I was having a lot of success stealing at my previous table (about once an orbit 6 handed + a legit hand from time to time) so I figured I could fold and try again later if played back at. I hadn't had anyone attempt a resteal on me preflop in the few times I've stopped in for this tourney.

So let me be clear though. Given I make what the consensus might be calling the absolute worst play by raising to 800, I HAVE to call the overshove because I'm getting ~2 to 1 on my money and I'm likely to have at least one live card right?

cjx