Trying to get Trickier with my Draws

frogger23 · #1 03-12-2007, 05:05 PM

10-25 no-limit. I've been raising several times per orbit in this full ring game. No one is ever reraising, and I generally get at least 2-3 callers. I'm sitting with 10k and half the table has me covered, with several of the big stacks playing really straightforward and unable to ever lay down second best hands. Half the table probably thinks I'm a lunatic, but the villain in this hand (who also has me covered) is a tight thinking player and we give each other lots of respect. I've never shown down a major bluff in the two days I've played with the villain. The hand in question is the only major confrontation we've had in like 20 hours of play.

I raise to $150 from middle position with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] after one limper. Villain calls in cutoff, button calls and six of us see the flop.

Flop- K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($900 in pot)
Several of the bad deep stacks saw this flop and I just know they won't give me credit for a flush if I hit. I bet $700 to build a pot, figuring I'm likely to get called in a couple spots, and if I hit I can really get paid off. The Villain described above flat calls my bet and everyone else folds.

Turn- 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2300 in pot)
When villian flat calls I think his hand is fairly transparent. I think he would raise here with a set almost all the time since so many saw the flop and there's a draw out there. He also knows that I wouldn't bet this flop unless I flopped top pair or better or a big draw against this many opponents almost ever. I don't think he would call this raise very often with suited connectors, but there is some small chance he is on a flush draw certainly. If he had 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I think he would almost always raise the flop though, both to get better draws to fold and to get money in against my likely top pair type hand.

I checked to him with the intention of check raising all in. When he bets $1500 I am pretty convinced he has either AK or KQ, with AK probably being slightly more likely (he would often flat call with AK pre, very rarely with AA I think).

I push all in which amounts to a raise of $7600 into a pot of $5300. Is this burning money against the player described or a good balance against the more frequent occurence in this spot that I've got AA, a set, or AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

fees · #2 03-12-2007, 05:21 PM

You're being really tricky here, he could have something like 1010 and think hes taking it down because you missed the king, the play itself is definitly a good play because unless he has the set its a really tough call, and its such a wierd way to play it that he'll definitly be confused. Even if you get called you have 9+2+3=14 ways to graceland.

DMACM · #3 03-12-2007, 05:28 PM

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Even if you get called you have 9+2+3=14 ways to graceland.

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if hes called i think its 9 outs.

AK87 · #4 03-12-2007, 06:21 PM

These stack sizes really blow for your hand. I kind of like how you played it, but it kinda looks like you have exactly that hand. I hope you play sets like this sometimes.

afadeyi · #5 03-12-2007, 06:32 PM

I think it's 11

jrforman · #6 03-12-2007, 06:49 PM

As described, I don't see villain calling here ever, since he has a set here almost never. I love the play regardless of the results against this type of villain.

ICE TREY · #7 03-12-2007, 07:08 PM

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I think it's 11

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frogger23 · #8 03-12-2007, 07:43 PM

One reason I opted to get tricky here is that if I bet turn and villain has ak or kq, he would often call, but not pay me off if a spade hits on the river and I push. I guess this means if I'm in a similar spot with ak or kq pushing the river will often be a good play if the spades come, as I think he would rarely to never call a 2/3 pot bet on turn with a flush draw without having huge implied odds.

Kirkrrr · #9 03-12-2007, 08:08 PM

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These stack sizes really blow for your hand. I kind of like how you played it, but it kinda looks like you have exactly that hand. I hope you play sets like this sometimes.

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AK87, I am not trying to be an [censored] in the least, but I don't think you play much live poker if you think that. That raise is seriously plenty large enough in a live cash game to discourage all but the strongest hands (ie better than TPTK) from calling, as typical live players simply don't make as many moves as you would be used to seeing online, and virtually NEVER with deep stacks.

Overall, I definitely like it.

Kirk

AK87 · #10 03-12-2007, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These stack sizes really blow for your hand. I kind of like how you played it, but it kinda looks like you have exactly that hand. I hope you play sets like this sometimes.

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AK87, I am not trying to be an [censored] in the least, but I don't think you play much live poker if you think that. That raise is seriously plenty large enough in a live cash game to discourage all but the strongest hands (ie better than TPTK) from calling, as typical live players simply don't make as many moves as you would be used to seeing online, and virtually NEVER with deep stacks.

Overall, I definitely like it.

Kirk

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I never said I didn't like it. I think it's fine, looks a lot like Hero has a flush draw, but villain can't call without a set/2 pair probably. I don't play this deep usually, and I was just commenting that the stack sizes suck for a turn bet because he has to fold to a shove and when he bricks on the river, [censored] spot. That's why this c/r turn is probably the only optimal line you can take with this hand. As for villain, I think that turn bet is horrible with any 1 pair hand. A set should have raised the flop, as well as 2 pair. Therefore, it looks like villain has a flush/combo draw.