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#41
02-17-2006, 03:51 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
Interesting thread.
My definition of outplaying your opponents. Winning without a hand. Anyone can win with cards, but can you do it without cards? You can if you understand position and they don't. You can if you have seen them fold, at some point. It's checking the flop and betting the turn. It's betting a scare card. It's c-betting and sponging. It's trapping. (Ok, so that's with cards, but it's still outplaying.) It's getting every chip possible out of their stack and into yours. It's not pushing with AA. It's rarely pushing at all. It's winning a tournament without ever going all in. It's gaining chips for two hours without a playable hand. It's recognizing who you can play and who is too stupid to know they're beat. It's stop and go, at the right time and the right place against the right opponent. And it's folding the winning hand, on occasion. Negreanu had a great quote: "If you don't fold the best hand once in awhile, you aren't trying very hard to win." It's "Play the situation, not the hand." Raymer's famous 2+2 quote. It's studying hour after hour, your hand histories, your books. It's being consumed by trying to be better than your opponents, better than yourself. It's working on the math when balancing a checkbook is a challenge. (In my world, anyway.) It's concentration. Focus. It's picking up something very small and using it to double your stack an hour from that time. It's recognizing better players on 2+2 and listening to what they are saying and not trying to find some flaw you can pick apart so you can say you won the argument. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I guess, you're a poker player, and a very good one at that. A very good thread, and the reason why only 5% of players make money. CJ 
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#43
02-18-2006, 02:07 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
Can I summarize that the general concensus seems to be that "outplaying" a particular opponent is, in general, making better decisions in given situations than your opponent is making. [/ QUOTE ] or fewer mistakes. To me, it's more than that. It's forcing your opponent into making mistakes he might not otherwise have made.
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#44
02-20-2006, 10:03 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
*bump*
That's it??? You guys are going to let me get in the last word? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#47
02-26-2006, 02:17 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
It's winning a tournament without ever going all in. Is this possible? [/ QUOTE ] Sure, why not? As long as you win the last hand, what does it matter?
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#48
02-26-2006, 04:52 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
But it's not as fun. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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#49
02-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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Re: \"Outplaying\"
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget he outplayed Marcel Luske as well. [/ QUOTE ] I just wanted to say that was one of the most hilarious things I've read. Slightly off subject, I play a weekly game at a bowling alley with a bunch of guys that don't really know anything about the game, and they think everything is "slowplaying": If you don't make top pair until the river and only then bet, that's slowplaying. If you start with 2 spades in your hand and "slowplay" until the flop comes with 3 spades before betting, you'd better believe that's slowplaying. If somebody bets the flop and gets raised (not a check-raise), I'll often hear "you slowplayin me?" It's very entertaining.
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