Poker - Luck vs. Skill from a different angle

[candyman718]

I have no doubts that in the long run poker is a game of skill. I have done a lot of thinking on this question due to having to constantly defend my position from family, friends and even other players who think the game is one of luck.

But, there is one thing that has been eating at me for some time now. Most of the players that I think are among the best players in the world are degenerate action junkies. During High Stakes Poker on GSN last season, the all-star lineup was so obsessed with the prop bets ( what cards would come out on the flop) the producers had to ban the prop bets for the next season, because it slowed down the play and dominated the table talk. TJ Cloutier, one of the greatest tournament players of all time has reportedly lost all his winnings at craps tables. Daniel Negraneu plays high stakes golf against seasoned players despite the fact he is just a beginner at the game. Phil Ivey can regularly be found betting obscene amounts in the High Roller BlackJack Pits. Some of the better players on this forum 'coinflip' at the 10/25 NL tables.

Don't my arguments that poker is a game of skill and one of seeking out +EV situations and grinding out a profit lose some of their weight when the best players in the world seem to be constantly seeking out -EV situations in an attempt to make a quick buck?

Sometimes I feel like someone who's backed a politician who preaches family values only to find that he's been caught snorting blow off a hooker's [censored].

[alphatmw]

no, the two facts are completely unrelated. why would a handful of players' gambling habits change the nature of the game of poker?

[badatmath]

That's like telling them strawberries are healthy, and feeling like your argument is losing weight because a lot of strawberry farmers eat hamburgers often.

[Matt Williams]

What you don't understand is that the prop bets take up less than .5% of their bankroll. It's like normal guys like us betting $5.

[mr_npiv]

I don't know about that. I remember during HSP, when Daniel went stuck to like 600k.

At some point as he was climbing back, he said he was even. Although he was down 150k at the table, he had made the rest with the props.

not quite .5%

[Matt Williams]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about that. I remember during HSP, when Daniel went stuck to like 600k.

At some point as he was climbing back, he said he was even. Although he was down 150k at the table, he had made the rest with the props.

not quite .5%

[/ QUOTE ]

He meant even for the night. Not bankroll. Believe me, DN has more than 600K in his bankroll. He probably has closer to $5,000,000 if not $10,000,000 in his bankroll.

[Bullzeye]

What you re suggesting( that prop bets are taking some of the best players in the world down and that they are basically bad skill and unfortunante for the other players) is absolutely wrong.

If you watch many touraments you will see many people, who are short stack and desparate for chips will sometimes just push it all in to scoop up the blinds. If it is late into the tournament the blinds may be big enough to get the short stack and the other even, which is extremely fortunate for the short stack. This can also work if it is late into a tournament and everybody is barely playing because they do not want to leave when they are so close to a final table. This could be a great oppourtunity to use the prop bets to enlarge your stack

Another thing that you have not realized that some times prop bets can be used the other way around. Many times I have seen the best players in the world win a tournament by throwing enough chips into the pot to put the short stack all in. Eventually the short stack will realize that the blinds are eating up his stack and call in desparation. The player who had been prop betting usually wins.

Basically many pros use this stratedgy and it is a good one, especially in heads up play. I can not stress enough that you should change your view and plug this into your game.

If any body agrees or not please post and put it up for disscussion.

[Pontus]

EDIT: Never mind, I actually don't give a ..

[Bullzeye]

Oooooooooooook, anybody who does give a......?

[JPFisher55]

I heavily discount the play of any poker on TV, especially HSP.