Top pair in raised pot

[Mr. Ratface]

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls.


Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7SB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.


Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.


River: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.


Results:
Final pot: 8.5BB


Is this standard or does anyone throw in a raise or fold somewhere along the line?

Sb just joined the table the last hand.

[bung]

It would be a bad fold against almost any villain with position. You're most likely up against QQ or KK, maybe even TT so nh. AA, JJ, AK also a minor possibility.

You can raise the river for value, Your equity is exactly 50% against an uknown here...

[Aaron W.]

I like just calling down, especially against an unknown. A river raise may not get called by KK, QQ, or TT, so I'm not sure if you can call it a value raise. Also, this is a 5-handed game, so I'm assuming that villain is turning up the aggro a little bit (which is another reason to just call -- if he's betting a weak hand, you don't want to give him a reason to fold).

[beak]

Hi there, its good that i am one of the 1st to reply as there will be so many strategies from the better players to come that i should learn something as well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (i have in fact just read 2 replies at the last minute prior to posting this, but i wont let it bias my original ramblings)

I personally would have raised the flop as you have Ace w/decent kicker and he could easily have a worse Ace and not want to cold-call preflop, especially shorthanded. But if he re-raises your raise we're prob looking at AA/AK poss AQ, and in a dominated position.

So my humble read on things is if he re-raises my raise on flop, prepare to fold the turn, as i am prob behind. But if he checks the turn after calling the raise its prob not that he's fazed by the jack, but rather that he has pocket K/Q and has realized from the flop that they might not be as good as they started out PF.

Raising the flop would of course give him better odds on the turn/river if he's chasing a KQh nut flush draw or similar.

The 3bet preflop screams pocket pair to me but could be T, J (may check-raise the turn J) Q OR K not just the bullets, or maybe AKo as he'd poss also jam the pot with that holding, (in which case we're dominated and praying for the 23-1 ten coming).

Its easy to fear the worst (AA, i know i would) but a flop raise could be the way to get a bit more info out of him -

he re-raises - prepare for a turn fold
he calls and checks to you on turn - no ace/bad ace

I am looking forward to seeing how wrong i am with this, but at least its got me thinking.

Beak

[bung]

[ QUOTE ]
I like just calling down, especially against an unknown. A river raise may not get called by KK, QQ, or TT, so I'm not sure if you can call it a value raise. Also, this is a 5-handed game, so I'm assuming that villain is turning up the aggro a little bit (which is another reason to just call -- if he's betting a weak hand, you don't want to give him a reason to fold).

[/ QUOTE ]

oh....didn't see that it was SH...Aaron, wouldn't this be a good example of WA/WB?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like just calling down, especially against an unknown. A river raise may not get called by KK, QQ, or TT, so I'm not sure if you can call it a value raise. Also, this is a 5-handed game, so I'm assuming that villain is turning up the aggro a little bit (which is another reason to just call -- if he's betting a weak hand, you don't want to give him a reason to fold).

[/ QUOTE ]

oh....didn't see that it was SH...Aaron, wouldn't this be a good example of WA/WB?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a pretty standard example. Usually preflop 3-bets from SB have narrow hand ranges associated to them (except in a steal-resteal situation, but I think this is likely just a typical re-raise). You're probably looking at AK-AQ/AJs, KQs, and AA-TT. It's not likely that he has a worse kicker than you, so you want to do everything you can to get him to put money in with KK/QQ/TT, and the best thing is to let them think they are value betting.

[bung]

ok, I just thought WA/WB in position was call-call-raise, but I can see there's obviously more than just one WA/WB line to use when in position...

[BigBadBabar]

it's a good wa/wb example. nice hand on every street.

[Mr. Ratface]

I was going to raise the flop because I was thining he had jj-kk often but then I decided that I didn't want to scare him away just yet. By the river though, when he didn't seem to slow down on the betting I though he might have JJ or a better ace indeed. Lucky for me he had KK this time and I did technically miss a raise but I think overall in the whole scheme of things and long term expectation I think I agree that with no reads, calling down is best.