Never fold KK preflop, right?!?!?

[Triumph36]

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1- i guarantee you none of you people actually fold KK here
2- what yellowsub said

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god i was about to go nuts.

first of all, most players in this game are stupid enough to 5 bet with AKs or AKo here, as well as to cold 4 it with AKs/AKo/JJ/QQ/air - furthermore, why would MP 5 bet with AA in this spot? - (i guess for the reasons i just said above).

it's close but i doubt i'm folding and most of you aren't either. In a game where people don't ever fold AK for 100 BBs, folding KK for 100, even three ways, seems like a mistake.

[JKratzer]

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"When was the last time you folded KK preflop?"

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here

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JKratzer:

Interesting. Is this the only time you can remember folding KK preflop? Also, what would you have done if you had been min. raised by your second opponent after the all-in bet by your first opponent? Do you still fold?

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no, i've folded KK preflop before, but that was quite a while ago, before wide 3-betting ranges were all the rage. one time it was a mistake too. that was the last time i folded KK pre. um i think i still fold to a minraise at that point, as i recall i decided to fold if the big stack raised anymore after i called, i don't think a minraise priced me in.

[philipsaurus]

lol at folding.

[Josh.]

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.867% 29.00% 02.87% 658184652 65186820.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 31.867% 29.00% 02.87% 658184652 65186820.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 36.266% 34.40% 01.87% 780877512 42348168.00 { KK }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.277% 32.81% 03.46% 393996096 41606992.00 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 1: 36.277% 32.81% 03.46% 393996096 41606992.00 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 2: 27.447% 24.14% 03.31% 289868544 39705784.00 { KK }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.529% 34.14% 04.39% 303253308 38983944.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 1: 38.529% 34.14% 04.39% 303253308 38983944.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 2: 22.941% 18.55% 04.39% 164798064 38976024.00 { KK }

[Pkrjnks]

Tough, very tough. I think fold. But, it would so depend on how the table had been playing, etc. If there had been a lot of loose agressive play I can see him making this raise with a wide variety of hands, especially given his image and skill. However, Given the size and how little you have in the pot, somewhat easy for you to get away. My worst hand with k's. I had been pounding a table, I think it was 3-6 NL, and had worked up to about 3k or so. A very solid player and I had been going back and forth, and this hand came up, he raised to about 18, I raised to about 60, he raised to 180, and I made it 1000 straight, he instantly pushed all in for about 2500 or so. It may or may not be exactly how it went down, but my gut knew in about one second too late as my finger clicked the call button that he had As. ugh. I think a part of me hoped for ks, but still... Probably the worst call i have ever made. Was a little tougher to get away considering how mcuh i had put in and how much was already in, but still. Awful call.

[jakhamma]

i am never ever folding here

[ata]

Last time a similar situation came up where I had KK in this spot at a 2/4 game, they had JJ and AK in a $1200 pot. Obv AK hits a boat to win.

[AceCR9]

don't be results oriented.


easy shove

[jlkrusty]

[ QUOTE ]
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.867% 29.00% 02.87% 658184652 65186820.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 31.867% 29.00% 02.87% 658184652 65186820.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 2: 36.266% 34.40% 01.87% 780877512 42348168.00 { KK }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.277% 32.81% 03.46% 393996096 41606992.00 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 1: 36.277% 32.81% 03.46% 393996096 41606992.00 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 2: 27.447% 24.14% 03.31% 289868544 39705784.00 { KK }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.529% 34.14% 04.39% 303253308 38983944.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 1: 38.529% 34.14% 04.39% 303253308 38983944.00 { QQ+ }
Hand 2: 22.941% 18.55% 04.39% 164798064 38976024.00 { KK }


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If the other two are all in, the pot will be $1,149, and I will have to put in $551 to get to showdown. If I go all in too, the pot will be $1,700. In other words, I am risking $551 to win a $1,700 pot (actually $1,697 after the rake). So, I need equity of 32.47% to make this shove.

I have that much equity in your first range of hands. And, I think their range is at least that. However, there is another problem. If I shove, SB can now play perfectly and probably won't go in with anything less than QQ (and maybe nothing less than KK). Shouldn't that be a factor as well?

I'm starting to think that calling in this type of situation is normally high variance with close to neutral EV... that is, unless we put our opponents on higher hand ranges. I think in this case, we can put at least one of our opponents on a broader hand range.

[jlkrusty]

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Last time a similar situation came up where I had KK in this spot at a 2/4 game, they had JJ and AK in a $1200 pot. Obv AK hits a boat to win.

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Ata,

So, do you stand by the mantra, "Never fold KK preflop"?