preflop strategy in commerce limit holdem games up to 60/120

[Mr Rick]

I played at Commerce one holiday weekend recently in the $9/$18 game. In general most games had >= 5 to the flop even with raises pre-flop. In those games I played suited aces, suited connectors, and all pairs - even calling raises with any pairs. Part of the value for me was busting high pocket pairs and watching guys go on tilt.

Even so, I raised normally based on position. I want everybody's money in when I have the best hand. And raising behind one guy who always calls pre-flop sometimes got me headsup or just with the BB too.

However, there were several times when a poker game broke out. One time, three fish busted out almost at once, and all of a sudden it was only 2 or 3 to a flop. Be prepared to adjust.

[sternroolz]

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However, there were several times when a poker game broke out. One time, three fish busted out almost at once, and all of a sudden it was only 2 or 3 to a flop. Be prepared to adjust.

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5 or more tables of each limit = very easy table changes.

PF play at Commerce is very table dependant and an ability to change and adapt to the various table conditions are important. Like this poster said, often table conditions will change within minutes. Also, players at $9-18 and $2-40 constantly walk. There is a adamant belief amoungst many of the Commerce regulars that certain dealers are bad luck for them. So a table at $20-40 that is perpetually 5-6 handed all night is not uncommon. Obv your starting hand requirements and raising situations will also constantly change.

Look....so far, I suck badly at putting players on a hand, particularly moronic lagtards. So I call way too much. But I make up for it with very selective aggression up front and laggy aggression pf from late position. And pounding bad players in short handed games. Commerce bad players are absolutely awful short handed. The standards suggested by OP do not fly up front at a full table. You will put yourself in a ton of very bad spots, and OOP at that. The suggestions also fail in the constantly short handed situations where sheer aggression pf becomes a very valuable tool, and limping a lot makes you an atm.

I've only been playing the $20-40 a short time, but its clear that the players who play a very rigid type of play, with little room for altered play, suffer a great deal at times, and tend to go on tilt way too often. There are already players I've encountered who would probably be slightly winning players in the Bellagio $15-30, who are most certainly loosers, or maybe break even at best in the Commerce $20-40. And really, it all starts with how passively they are playing their hands pf.

[amulet]

1. your need to tighten up preflop.
2. the money to be made is based on how you play postflop. if you play perfectly pre, you would only have a slight positive ev unless you know how to play post flop.

read ssh and hpfap again.

tight and aggressive is going to beat those games. if you get too loose your giving away money.

if you don't understand correct postflop play in multiway raised pots your loosing a lot of money.

[amulet]

additionally, play very few hand upfront. raise MOST of the time you enter a pot. and call very very few raises cold.

if you know the game, and expect most pots to be multiway you can play more hands, but don't take that idea too far. out of position limping, and then getting raised and 3 bet vs a small field a few times can turn a solid session into an expensive lesson.

[TheTid]

I play in limit games where most hands are 5+ players and so much money is lost w/ unsuited high cards, ATo+ KJo, etc. These hands play terribly in multi-way pots since you are really only playing for top pair (or sometimes 2 pair). W/ 5 others seeing the flop, most people will have some sort of draw, 2 pair or set already on the flop.

If 7 people see the flop the worst thing you can do is raise w/ AJo, AQo, etc., you are just giving everyone odds on their draw. Suited is a different story though.

If you know at least 4 others are going to see the flop even to a raise, then play all pairs, suited connecters down to 54s, and high suited cards. In position, raise the high suited cards and very high pairs.

The money is made in these games by hitting top pair w/ nut flush draw, straight + flush draws, sets and having multiple people call all the way down w/ weaker gutshot draws, pairs, worse flush draws and so on.

[ssmallz]

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If 7 people see the flop the worst thing you can do is raise w/ AJo, AQo, etc., you are just giving everyone odds on their draw.

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WOW. I'm truely shocked

[TheTid]

huh? Those hands are terrible against many opponents.

Example, 5 callers and you have AJo on the button. You raise, the BB and every caller calls. 7 BB's already in the pot. Flop comes A96, 2 spades. You have top pair. Lets say you bet, and get 4 callers. someone could already have you beat, 1 guy is probably on a flush draw, someone could have a weaker A, and 2 people are probably on some sort of straight draw. So now you have 2 streets to avoid any spade, another guy w/ a pair hitting 2 pair, about 8 other non-spade cards that make a straight. However, do to the size of the pot you are probably calling all the way down no matter if another card hits or someone bets out.

See how many times top pair holds up vs. 5 other people.

So lets see, you are either already beat and are calling down or you have to go runner runner vs. 5 people (in that they all miss) in which case you probably wont pick up any river bets (or maybe 1 vs. someone w/ a pair).

[maxpowers21]

I'm pretty sure I'm raising AQo everytime in an unraised pot preflop, with maybe the one exception of being in a huge multiway pot in the BB.

[ssmallz]

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huh? Those hands are terrible against many opponents.

Example, 5 callers and you have AJo on the button. You raise, the BB and every caller calls. 7 BB's already in the pot. Flop comes A96, 2 spades. You have top pair. Lets say you bet, and get 4 callers. someone could already have you beat, 1 guy is probably on a flush draw, someone could have a weaker A, and 2 people are probably on some sort of straight draw. So now you have 2 streets to avoid any spade, another guy w/ a pair hitting 2 pair, about 8 other non-spade cards that make a straight. However, do to the size of the pot you are probably calling all the way down no matter if another card hits or someone bets out.

See how many times top pair holds up vs. 5 other people.

So lets see, you are either already beat and are calling down or you have to go runner runner vs. 5 people (in that they all miss) in which case you probably wont pick up any river bets (or maybe 1 vs. someone w/ a pair).

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Wow, I'm truely shocked and amazed by your lack of poker fundamentals. I will not go into this any further but please read the necessary chapters in SSHE. It explains exactly why you should be raising these hands in loose passive games like the ones you described.