Playing 77 & 88 in EP Live

[Frond]

At typical Loose passive LLHE live tables, do some of you ever find yourselves raising in EPs with 77 & 88 hands PF? I normally just limp in with these hands but maybe I should be occassionally raising them? They can be very tricky hands to play at times post flop when you are not sure where you are in the hand, esp. in early positions. A typical situation: I find myself limping in UTG+1 with 77, no raises PF, 6 see the flop, I don't hit a set on the flop, the flop has 1 or 2 overcards to my pair qwith no flush or str8 draws, there is a bet before me and I fold. I'm out of position for sure & with 6 in on the hand with 2 overs, I am likely to not be good most of the time. But, with an occ. PF raise with a mid pair maybe I get to see the turn for free? Jut trying to figure diff. ways to play them instead of always just set mining and folding when I don't hit.

[PorkchopDJG]

I would play these the same as you do in typical loose/passive live games. A raise from EP just isn't good because others will call in this type of game and then are you going to bet on the flop when you miss and there are 2 or 3 overs on the board? Once in a while I would raise with these on the button as if I miss everyone will usually check to me and depending on the flop texture I can either bet it or check and get to see the turn for free.
In a tight/aggressive game definitely raise these often times from UTG or UTG+1 but not in a loose/passive game.

[Grease]

With 88 and a really passive table, I probably raise. I probably do the same thing with 77 as well.

I'm pretty aggro, even up front, especially when I know that I'll get called with all sorts of trash that I have dominated. Also, by raising, you can tie people to the pot (but not necessariy yourself, since you know that if you get played back at w/out a set, you're toast) and entice them to call you down when you flop a set.

Raising at a tight table is probably more correct, but I find that not raising even with 77 probably sacrifices some value.

Disclaimer: I mostly play 10/20 live at the moment, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[acesovercole]

I agree. I like trying to see the flop for a single bet and hope to hit my set. If I do hit a set I will be happy that there are 6 other players in the hand with me. The texture of the board will depend on how I play out the hand from there ie; flushing/straightening or not.

[Frond]

I guess I am trying to figure a way to play these hands and not just dump to any bet. Pretty general post from me without mentioning specific player & table types etc. I feel that with small pairs like 33, it is a lot easier to dump when you miss the flop but when you start getting to the area of around 77-88 it involves more thinking before you just auto-dump to any bet. For now I'll probably stick to my current style of limping in with these hands and play the flop as I ususally do. It can be tough at low limits becasue people play ATCs all the time. Sometimes your 77 is good.

[Grease]

I agree that raising these preflop can get you into sticky situations, however, my argument is that regardless of this, raising preflop will increase your expectation because, as you said, your opponents are liable to play ATC, even against a raise. That said, 77 and 88 definitely have equity against everyone playing ATC, and I want to push my equity, especially because I can outplay my opponents postflop, even OOP.

[Frond]

When I first started playing live I never used to raise 88 or 99 on the button. And this was at times with maybe only one limper in ahead of me. That was before I had played much obviously. I was still in the beg. passive mode of a playing style. Playing time, studying and reading has cured this.

It bugs me when I end up dumping 88 after the flop, and it would have held up. Not because I would have hit my set on the turn or River but because my lone 88 would have held up. Perhaps this is more player specific as far as what kinds of hands are others are likely to be playing(and have shown down) and like Grease said, outplaying Post flop.

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes your 77 is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the time it's good, does it make up for the many more times it's not? Not really. I'm going to sound like some kind of know-it-all, which I'm absolutely not, but I see people in these spots thinking results-oriented and not seeing the big picture. Sure, it sucks when your PP is good and you have thrown in your hand. I remember one time last week when my 55 in the BB was good to a pair of 44 in LP. MP bet, he called the flop and I mucked. So what? How many times does that happen? Once in 20 times? There were 2 overcards on the flop to his/my pair. Middle pair was good, yet he called. He ended up rebuying twice.

On a very passive table, I'll limp any pair. If there is someone who raises in LP or the button out of habit, I'll fold them because they need volume and may not get it with someone showing aggression on a loose/passive table. I need 8:1 and if 5 are seeing every flop, I'm going to get it, even with a raise, so let's gambool.

However, in EP, in that case, if a set doesn't come, how much chance is it your lowly PP is going to hold up? Fat chance, baby.

Let 'em then go.

My dos centavos

[Frond]

Yea, just doing a game leak check. I have been playing them as most suggest here so I will copntinue to do so.

Muchos Gracias Senor Jack

[bernie]

Loose passive games, I'd limp.

[ QUOTE ]
Jut trying to figure diff. ways to play them instead of always just set mining and folding when I don't hit.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much about it. the other ways of playing them usually consist of paying off with 3rd or 4th best hand.

b