Coaching WARNING

[Hoover]

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Who the heck is snowbank, never heard / seen this guy on twoplustwo or the sites I play

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Professional Klepto.

[Barrin6]

Man I just read this whole thread. Really disgusting. You guys have to understand that a good poker player and a good coach are two seperate things.

And aim convo used for coaching? WTF. Use skype for god sakes

[holla]

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Blabla clayton.Just gave my opinion.But really there is no way I would give his money back.

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christ, have you even given any thought to this? (i'm questioning snowbank's motives as well).

okay, you can choose to repay, keep good rep of being an honest/good person/coach, or you can tarnish your rep by being a prick about $450, along with opening a whole slew of disatisfied customers. (which will lead to a loss of customers).

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Let say police says you have committed a murder.If you confess you will spend 4 years in prison.If not you will be there for the rest of your life.Well I choose B.

[dchz]

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also snowbank WTF I thought you were better than this. pay the man back if you cant coach him. your intent in coaching is to make more money, no? then you're being retarded.

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Why would he care about money when he obviously did the right thing?

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'right thing' is debatable. from a biz standpoint, his decision is very puzzling. he'll definitely lose buisness from this/hurt rep.

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this is very true, but snowbank could use this as a selection process to get the students who are best for his type of coaching

honestly as a coach:

i would refund the money because i'm a nice guy, but i would hate doing it.

as a player seeking a coach:

i don't think this whole thread (i've actually read this) would affect whether or not i select snowbank as a coach,

good drama though

[Freelancer]

To everyone; This thread is the 'proof' that 2p2 has a colossal mob mentality, the moment some random person accuses a known and respected person everyone jumps on the horse wagon of dragging snowbank through the mud. From my point of view 2p2 noticed a few big name 2p2'ers basically saying snowbank is a scumbag and decide to follow them like a herd of sheep. If a bunch of big name 2p2'ers would've posted at the start of the thread that they completely trust snowbank and that they think OP is completely off base here than I wouldn't be suprised that the rest of 2p2 follows meakly.

I also said this to OP but I think he personally managed to make sure he never gets back his money, if I decided to not refund and OP decides to drag my name through the mud I'd never even CONSIDER helping him out ever again in whatever regard. OP should've got this sorted out with snowbank personally and if that doesn't work with 2p2 modds/other coaches/other students etc. before even considering dragging his name through the mud. I find this entire episode VERY unclassy by OP and although I don't agree with snowbanks choice not to refund I back him up completely.

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[Dan Bitel]

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To everyone; This thread is the 'proof' that 2p2 has a colossal mob mentality, the moment some random person accuses a known and respected person everyone jumps on the horse wagon of dragging snowbank through the mud. From my point of view 2p2 noticed a few big name 2p2'ers basically saying snowbank is a scumbag and decide to follow them like a herd of sheep. If a bunch of big name 2p2'ers would've posted at the start of the thread that they completely trust snowbank and that they think OP is completely off base here than I wouldn't be suprised that the rest of 2p2 follows meakly.

I also said this to OP but I think he personally managed to make sure he never gets back his money, if I decided to not refund and OP decides to drag my name through the mud I'd never even CONSIDER helping him out ever again in whatever regard. OP should've got this sorted out with snowbank personally and if that doesn't work with 2p2 modds/other coaches/other students etc. before even considering dragging his name through the mud. I find this entire episode VERY unclassy by OP and although I don't agree with snowbanks choice not to refund I back him up completely.

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QFT

[runway model]

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Even before I had the first session with OP, after talking brief poker with him I told him to move down...

After the first session with OP, I told him he should probably drop to 50s...

OP was missing a LOT of basic things with poker...

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Snow:

After an hour it became apparent to you that OP wasn't really equipped to be playing NL200 and was really an NL50 player...

I know that OP is not smelling like a rose here. But, you could have refused him as a student...

Technically, you probably don't owe OP anything. On an ethical, business, and personal level he should get a refund. And IMHO that should be $600, but $450 would probably be satisfactory to him.

--aj
(JMPO)

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aj is right.

snowbank, you have missed the point in spectacular fashion. your post only tells us stuff we already knew. that op is naive and you didnt really want to coach him. and nobody here is disputing this. but it is precisely because of these reasons that you should have quit coaching him and refunded his money.

KEEPING HIS MONEY = LOSING YOUR INTEGRITY. and that goes beyond coaching.

friends of snowbank, in this case it doesnt really matter whether snowbank is otherwise decent. it's obvious from his reply that he's missed the point and couldnt care less.

snowbank, listen to taylor, aj, krantz and and el d. and grow up.

[Freelancer]

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Even before I had the first session with OP, after talking brief poker with him I told him to move down...

After the first session with OP, I told him he should probably drop to 50s...

OP was missing a LOT of basic things with poker...

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Snow:

After an hour it became apparent to you that OP wasn't really equipped to be playing NL200 and was really an NL50 player...

I know that OP is not smelling like a rose here. But, you could have refused him as a student...

Technically, you probably don't owe OP anything. On an ethical, business, and personal level he should get a refund. And IMHO that should be $600, but $450 would probably be satisfactory to him.

--aj
(JMPO)

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aj is right.

snowbank, you have missed the point in spectacular fashion. your post only tells us stuff we already knew. that op is naive and you didnt really want to coach him. and nobody here is disputing this. but it is precisely because of these reasons that you should have quit coaching him and refunded his money.

KEEPING HIS MONEY = LOSING YOUR INTEGRITY. and that goes beyond coaching.

friends of snowbank, in this case it doesnt really matter whether snowbank is otherwise decent. it's obvious from his reply that he's missed the point and couldnt care less.

snowbank, listen to taylor, aj, krantz and and el d. and grow up.

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What a perfect example of herd mentality...

[DirteAA]

So if a large group of people form an opinion of someone, or something, based on the facts they are given and they make their opinions known to the public they should autmoatically be labelled as "bandwagon mob"?

I disagree. More than one student said they were not impressed with and were disappointed by the lack of commitment that snowbank offered as a coach. The transcript that Shltz posted and OP's original gripe are almost identical. Coincidence?

The majority of us here are able to form our own individual opinions and if the majority decides that someone screwed up then I think it carries serious weight.

So the friends of snowbank can say he is a stand up guy and all, but they are looking at the situation through blind eyes. Of course his friends aren't going to say he's an ass. But those who are outsiders to this situation probably have a much better perspective seeing how they have nothing invested in either OP or snowbank.

Not long ago a girl named Brandi posted something similar to this, and she ended up getting completely flamed. I guess that was mob mentality too. Except in that situation the "victim" was the one who ended up tarnishing their rep.

[Freelancer]

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So if a large group of people form an opinion of someone, or something, based on the facts they are given and they make their opinions known to the public they should autmoatically be labelled as "bandwagon mob"?

I disagree. More than one student said they were not impressed with and were disappointed by the lack of commitment that snowbank offered as a coach. The transcript that Shltz posted and OP's original gripe are almost identical. Coincidence?

The majority of us here are able to form our own individual opinions and if the majority decides that someone screwed up then I think it carries serious weight.

So the friends of snowbank can say he is a stand up guy and all, but they are looking at the situation through blind eyes. Of course his friends aren't going to say he's an ass. But those who are outsiders to this situation probably have a much better perspective seeing how they have nothing invested in either OP or snowbank.

Not long ago a girl named Brandi posted something similar to this, and she ended up getting completely flamed. I guess that was mob mentality too. Except in that situation the "victim" was the one who ended up tarnishing their rep.

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If you stick around long enough at 2p2 you start to notice what I am saying. I don't mean that everybody who follows around echoing the big names around here is stupid or an idiot (sorry if I came of that way) but it gets really really tiring to see thread after thread that goes exactly the same. A bunch of novices post there thoughts about the concept, a regular posts something radically different and suddenly everyone is singing the regular's song. And you see it everywhere, in this thread, in strategy threads and HH's.

I really don't know snowbank that well, from my experiences with him I personally trust him and I'm obviously not alone in this regard.