TD27 Button Raising pre-draw - general principles

[BruinEric]

I've been trying to learn TD27 on occasion by playing very low limit games, and I'm really trying to understand raising pre-draw. I realize I am far too passive pre-draw, and I'll limp and draw 2 to a good starting hand and be in the pot with 2 others drawing 3. Or a BB drawing 4 and a limper drawing 2 without a deuce. I'm surely missing out on money by building a pot with the best of it, as well as getting the BB out of the hand.

To at least limit to scope of this thread, can some of you help me understand raising on the button? How wide a range are you raising? Do you change raising strategy based on prior callers? For the sake of argument, presume no reads. Assume a mix of fair players at low limits, maybe even one really good player in there.

One-card 7 or 8 draws with a deuce.
I would presume putting in a raise no matter the number of callers in front of your button is standard.

Negreanu's Marginal 1-card 8 draws (no deuce)
(8543,8653,8643,8743,8753,8763)
So far, I'd only raise these to steal or to isolate with one caller in front. I'm often folding or just limping the 87s above unless I'm playing people who will play 3-card draws from EP.

Two-Card 7-draws on Button w/deuce
-No limpers: Raise
-1 limper: ?
-2 limpers: ?
-3 limpers: ?


Two-Card 8-5 or better draws on Button w/deuce
-No limpers: Raise
-1 limper: ?
-2 limpers: ?
-3 limpers: ?

[DeathDonkey]

I am dead serious when I say that capping every one of these hand pre-draw would be more correct than your current strategy. These are your monsters. For sure cap every one card 7 or 8 draw with a 2, as well as every 2 card 7 draw with a 2. From any position by the way. Some of the one card 8 draws no deuce you could fold in some circumstances but go ahead and raise them in any unraised pot. The two card 8-5 or better raise in any unraised pot but in a reraised pot there are times to fold some and times to reraise them and its usually the latter.

You must be epically tight.

-DeathDonkey

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
I am dead serious when I say that capping every one of these hand pre-draw would be more correct than your current strategy. These are your monsters. For sure cap every one card 7 or 8 draw with a 2, as well as every 2 card 7 draw with a 2. From any position by the way. Some of the one card 8 draws no deuce you could fold in some circumstances but go ahead and raise them in any unraised pot. The two card 8-5 or better raise in any unraised pot but in a reraised pot there are times to fold some and times to reraise them and its usually the latter.

You must be epically tight.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You are raising and capping hands like 257, 267 out of position? i open with them but don't cap. It seems like vs. good opponents you are either even with them (if same draw), behind alot if they have 1-card 7 draw, or close to even if they have 1 card 8-draw. and you're oop. your hand is pretty clear once you draw

[DeathDonkey]

Oops yes you are right gergery. I didn't think my post through completely, open raise the two card 7 draws from any position and 3 bet a raiser but don't raise, get 3 bet, and then cap except in rare situations. It's tough to define an entire preflop strategy in one paragraph I was just trying to get OP to realize how far away he was playing from what I think is optimal.

-DeathDonkey

[BruinEric]

Good stuff, thanks. My default style has been passive as I try to learn lowball games with fairly limited material (just the SS2 chapter & Sklansky on Razz), and I realize I'm not building a pot with the premium starting hands I have. Hence the post in the first place.

I'm still not really fond of 8763 with other people in the pot generally. I can see where a raise and draw-one works if you can limit the field to HU makes good sense, especially with position to punish a 3-draw or to get a 2-draw to fold if he gets 2 bricks. But that concern is starting to depart from "general principles" and surely dependent on they type of players at the table.

I may be totally missing that 8763 has a significant equity edge against say a 2-card 7 draw and a 2-card 8 draw in the same pot.

[Jigsaws]

I think folding an 8763 in EP at an 0.50/1 table isn't terrible. With an average of about 4 to the first draw, an 876 just isn't going to hold up all that often. Same goes for 8753 and 8743. I definitely play them in my 2/4 and 3/6 games, but I don't think it's terrible to fold them at 0.50/1.

I raise and cap all the other 1 card draws you mentioned, though. I also raise 2x7 from anywhere. I raise 238/248/258 from the Button and CO no matter how many limpers. If the table's reasonably tight (ahaha, do those exist?), I'll open them from HJ and UTG too.

[BruinEric]

Appreciate the thoughts, thanks. I find these kind of threads more valuable than hand histories at this point in my even comprehending the game.

One of the biggest hurdles I've had is when to re-raise, and this thread has helped significantly in that regard too.