getting aggro!

[martybonus]

yeah, thanks again all.

makes alot of sense.

I think i'm leaking a bit with these over-aggressive plays.

My belief that weak-tights will release a better hand is largely unfounded in any sort of actual fact.

I call this style of play 'martyland' and it results in me making bluffs on the river that of course get called.

in this instance he did fold the river, but just about every other time I get called on every street and then lose on the river.

So the thinking is that it's better to just fire 2 barrels and check/fodl the river because villain is not calling down with a weaker hand and is not folding a better hand ?

[milesdyson]

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Bet flop, bet turn. Your flop play is a pure bluff that will never work. What better hands will ever fold? The only thing you may do is make him fold KQ or KJ incorrectly later because your play looks like a donkey with a huge hand. He will often fold these incorrectly if you keep betting anyway.

Your river bet is, again, a pure bluff that will not work. You may get called by AJ but nothing better will ever fold. The vast majority of the time your opponent had KQ/KJ/AJ and he simply folded the worst hand.

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Does a river bet ever get a hand like 44 to fold?

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No. People capable of folding underpairs fold them on the flop or turn vs. this line. They don't think, "Oh look this guy might be bluffing but if he keeps it going on the river I am going to fold for that last bet." That thinking and its application is not very common.

[milesdyson]

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it's a great spot for stealing blinds, taking down pots PF with an UTG PFR, etc. But defense from them is critical as well.

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Also: Don't overdo that! Neither the former nor the latter! You need to be quite sure that he's indeed stealing. You're feeling really stupid if you're going crazy with MP against a suppossed blindsteal and he just shows down his AA and goes "WTF?!?!?"

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You don't need to be quite sure when you have AQs, though, which is a monster hand against almost any late position open raiser.

[martybonus]

thanks again all. very helpful.

I need to get myself clear on the difference between aggression (ie exploiting small edges) and stupidity (ie trying to get weak-tights to fold ANY pair)

[fretelöo]

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it's a great spot for stealing blinds, taking down pots PF with an UTG PFR, etc. But defense from them is critical as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also: Don't overdo that! Neither the former nor the latter! You need to be quite sure that he's indeed stealing. You're feeling really stupid if you're going crazy with MP against a suppossed blindsteal and he just shows down his AA and goes "WTF?!?!?"

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You don't need to be quite sure when you have AQs, though, which is a monster hand against almost any late position open raiser.

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True. Just generally speaking.

[fretelöo]

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So the thinking is that it's better to just fire 2 barrels and check/fodl the river because villain is not calling down with a weaker hand and is not folding a better hand ?

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Right. Often people peel very loosely, so a turn bet is often correct, esp. HU. But having called flop and turn, you have to figure that he has something - and generally it's better than ace-high.

And, even if he's on a draw that didn't come in, he'll very, very rarely bet himself on the river. So you're actually not opening up yourself to a river bluff too much.

[Zeldark]

I have been burned many many times by check-raising unknown opponents. (And 2p2ers that MUST fold if they have nothing, right?) High risk plays like that are better when when you know they'll work better, ie: not against an unknown at 25/50c. (2p2 tables requires timing and restraint to not overdo it. Also having recently check-raising and showing down with genuine hands helps too.)

[Big Folder]

You should bet the flop. It will give you a better idea of what he has and you might be ahead here. If you know he's going to c-bet after you check to him, then you c/r doesn't give you any information and it doesn't give him the chance to fold to your donk bet. It will just make him suspicious.

Betting out gives him two options and makes your job easier. If he raises you can call and c/f the turn with ace high. If he calls I generally will bet again and give him a chance to fold.

Here, i dont know where you stand. He could be calling down with a T, 7, 9, a-high. I rather donk and give myself a chance to figure out what he has.