Interesting question that I'm not sure has been answered - Page 4

smbruin22 · #31 03-06-2007, 12:08 AM

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Profit from the hand is a good indicator of the question.

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i don't think that's true, but i'd have to think about it.. i think the OP was looking for a more exact answer, which admittedly i'm not even close to.

BTW, i am in agreement that AA is by far the best hand.. i'm NOT one of these "i've lost so much money with it" types.

Mr Know It All · #32 03-06-2007, 12:10 AM

maybe dats because all u see is da aces and think like a fish wooahhhh monster but u dont see the profit/LOSS

smbruin22 · #33 03-06-2007, 12:21 AM

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maybe dats because all u see is da aces and think like a fish wooahhhh monster but u dont see the profit/LOSS

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i have statistical software that analyzes my hands... AA is miles, miles, miles (as many as you want) ahead of all hands except maybe KK. but it's miles ahead of that too..... you're right a fish doesn't see the losses with AA but he's still making money on them... i will not lose a deepish stack with AA, as simple as that. 30BB i might though.

Mr Know It All · #34 03-06-2007, 12:25 AM

i think the same way with AK i lose sooo much with dis hand so now i hardly ever raises it i just peel off da flop and then make my decision.believe it or not the AA lost with me 7 times out of 8 recently.so my opinion is dat its not as good as ppl make out and now i never get too aggressive with them shitz.

smbruin22 · #35 03-06-2007, 12:29 AM

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i think the same way with AK i lose sooo much with dis hand so now i hardly ever raises it i just peel off da flop and then make my decision.believe it or not the AA lost with me 7 times out of 8 recently.so my opinion is dat its not as good as ppl make out and now i never get too aggressive with them shitz.

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just bad luck on the AA... you have to be aggressive mostly with AK and ALWAYS with AA, at least pre-flop.....

would you rather be the guy who doesn't have the AA? sure it's nice to be the guy with 77 that hits the flop, but there's also guys with AQ or KQ that are completely screwed.

AA is where it's at. just be careful

bernie · #36 03-06-2007, 12:52 AM

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Every other non paired hands needs at least 3 cards to make the nuts. AA only needs 1 card.

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If another hand made the nuts more than AA, wouldn't that hand be more desirable than AA?

b

smbruin22 · #37 03-06-2007, 12:59 AM

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If another hand made the nuts more than AA, wouldn't that hand be more desirable than AA?

b

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except, AA often wins as is. your opponents needs one card and more often two cards to beat you... i agree somewhat with your logic, but AKs has alot more ways to make the nuts and there are 3 cards.

you're probably right, but i'd like to see a mathematical/simulation solution.... for the AA set nuts, you have to hit the A and no straight coordination, and no 3 card flush and no paired board (didn't realize the paired board, but A77 on board, the nuts is quad 7's)

GiantBuddha · #38 03-06-2007, 01:35 AM

K9s for second nuts most often, anyone?

SplawnDarts · #39 03-06-2007, 01:45 AM

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But isn't it more likely to make a flush with five cards out with A-K suited than a set with A-A?

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No. I don't have any easy way to do the math here, but the set is almost twice as common.

SplawnDarts · #40 03-06-2007, 02:24 AM

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splawn, thanks........

you and others are most likely right about AA being the most likely to hit nuts.

but aren't most 5 board card combo's co-ordinated for a straight? doing this off top of my head. and the ace on board works high and low. seems like most are co-ordinated and you have to hit the ace....

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Actually, I think you may be right - there are a large number of uncoordinated A-high boards, but I miscounted the number of JT straight boards and AKs flush boards (ran out of fingers and toes), so I'm no longer convinced top sets are the dominat factor. Someone needs to run this to see or be less lazy than me and really figure out the answer.

You've also got a good point about A playing low. There may be more uncoordinate K-high boards than A-high since you can bury an aditional card down in wheel land without making a straight.

So now I'm not so sure. It might be AA, KK, JTs (not that the suited matters much in that case) depending on which factor is dominant. Hell, if nut 3-on-board flushes are the dominant factor, it might even be some Ax with modestly low x to allow more seperate 4-on-board straights, although the number of possible nut full houses goes down as x drops.