Showing Hands. Rule interpretation HELP!!?

[TomBrooks]

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I'm still confused

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, you obviously are.

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why since according to his rules, since I called him, and requested to see his cards, he doesnt have to show them to me?

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It's self evident. I think you better reread his rules yourself--slowly and carefully. His rules by the way, conform exactly with the Official Rules of Poker, except for the part where he disallows anyone except himself the right to see another players hand even if they suspect collusion. Do you see that? He DISALLOWS ANYONE (THAT MEANS YOU) from asking to see another players hand--under ANY circumstances!

If I was in your game and you asked to see my hand, I would turbo muck it and tell you to call the TD/Floor/Host if you didn't like it.

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according to our entire group, they were under the exact impression that I was, he was called, therefore he has to show.

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Then your whole group apparently has a reading comprehension problem.

[Hammerhead]

He is the TD/ and he rules his game with an iron fist and this is the very reason, we have 300+ members but cant fill up a table on weds night. Most places I play at, all the money goes in, the cards go on their backs. If you get called, and your hand is requested to be seen, you show.
And btw our game has two professional dealers in it that agreed that he should have shown his hand.

[TomBrooks]

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our game has two professional dealers in it that agreed that he should have shown his hand.

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Sounds like your dealers don't understand the rules any better than the players. Why are you having so much trouble understanding them? You literally typed them out yourself above. And what wrote conforms to the Official Rules with only one exception as I noted above.

[PantsOnFire]

Let me be clear again. In a cash game, nobody ever has to show their cards unless they want to win the pot. If they figure they can't win the pot for whatever reason (and seeing a better hand is a very good reason), then they can muck. Yes, there is that rule where you can ask to see a mucked hand at showdown but really that is for extrodinary circumstances related to suspected collusion so it shouldn't apply very often and I think it is a shiite rule anyways.

You have a clear set of rules regarding this so use them. The only one you might want to clarify is the one regarding the "last betting round". If players are all-in before the river, then there is no "checking around" at the river so the last betting round is the one where betting actually occurred. In your case, this was the turn. So don't flip over your cards, see the river, and then request him to show his hand at showdown. He can then muck at that point if he chooses to, thus giving up the pot uncontested. If he wants to win the pot, he must show first. Those are the rules and if he doesn't abide by them then find another game.

[Lottery Larry]

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Please help TRY TO GET THIS RULE CHANGED as I will be posting this link to him shortly.
Thanks In advance.

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FYP- good luck with that plan. What is it about rule #3 that you didn't understand?

If the host is such a drain on the game, why don't you host your OWN game and take the disgruntled absentees?

I disagree with a lot of the things that the host is doing, IF they are as you are describing. But you're choosing to play in that game, with those rules.

[Rottersod]

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Let me be clear again. In a cash game, nobody ever has to show their cards unless they want to win the pot. If they figure they can't win the pot for whatever reason (and seeing a better hand is a very good reason), then they can muck. Yes, there is that rule where you can ask to see a mucked hand at showdown but really that is for extrodinary circumstances related to suspected collusion so it shouldn't apply very often and I think it is a shiite rule anyways.

You have a clear set of rules regarding this so use them. The only one you might want to clarify is the one regarding the "last betting round". If players are all-in before the river, then there is no "checking around" at the river so the last betting round is the one where betting actually occurred. In your case, this was the turn. So don't flip over your cards, see the river, and then request him to show his hand at showdown. He can then muck at that point if he chooses to, thus giving up the pot uncontested. If he wants to win the pot, he must show first. Those are the rules and if he doesn't abide by them then find another game.

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I think PantsonFire has summerized quite nicely what everyone here has been trying to explain to you.

[jhans24]

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Well, needless to say this bothered me since we've got some history of this and he posted rules addressing my concerns about his imo, angle shooting by not showing his cards.

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Were his rules posted before this incident or after?

[DavidNB]

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He is the TD/ and he rules his game with an iron fist and this is the very reason, we have 300+ members but cant fill up a table on weds night. Most places I play at, all the money goes in, the cards go on their backs. If you get called, and your hand is requested to be seen, you show.
And btw our game has two professional dealers in it that agreed that he should have shown his hand.

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When he goes all in and you call, wait untill he shows his hand first. By you showing your hand out of turn and verbally asking to see his is causing a problem. If he wants to muck his hand without seeing your hand, all the better for you.

[pfapfap]

I'm sorry you're not getting the answers you want, but you should think about why that is. Why is this an issue at all? Your problem is with more than this rule, which, as others have pointed out, is rather clear that he is not in the wrong. There's also the little fact that it's his game and his rules. Perhaps he doesn't know how to sustain a party, but that's separate from the topic on which you're focusing.

I think you'd be best served by stepping back, perhaps writing down all the little things that annoy you about this game, and see if you can find a broader element behind it all. It would also be helpful to think honestly about what preconceptions or attitudes you're bringing to the situation (problems with the world usually aren't fully the world's fault). Then, do a cost/benefit analysis of attempting to change it. It sounds like you have other games you enjoy more, and that you wouldn't enjoy this game just from getting this perfectly reasonable rule changed because of your preferences.

Pick your battles, and be honest about what they are.

[Lottery Larry]

If you're gonna get all reasonable and logical with your advice, we're going to have to ask you to leave.