Not raising Big pairs PF

[Frond]

OP here. I think that maybe because I am starting to play more live LHE that I have been seeing a lot of limping in with big pairs. They are also the ones who are always calling and rarely raising at all. I guess because that I always raise em PF and reraise em that I am still a bit astounded when people flip over KK on the showdown and they won the pot but failed to raise the hand PF in or out of position at all. I am so programmed to play my agg PF style with big pairs that I am not yet used to it but I am starting to see a myriad of lame plays and trying to file them for present & future use.

[bravos1]

Just don't file limping big PPs away for use at all! Keep that locked in the closet. you want to be raising these hands for several reasons:

1. value
2. value
3. value
4. people are gonna cold call a lot anyhow = more $$

Sure big PPs play better against fewer people, but don't take that the wrong way and just limp because a bunch of people are already in. Even if we happened to be playing 20 handed, and I'm in the BB w/ AA after the entire table limps, I still raise and it is for value.

BTW, live poker is so great because it is SOOOOO passive typically and you make a killing on the hands you win and usually will not get punished to bad win you lose.

Winning hands being big pots + losing hands being minimal investment = a good session.

[Frond]

Bravos1,the point of my original post was that I thought that it was absurd that anyone would NOT raise PF with big pairs. I'm filing these lame plays that players make so I will recognize them, take advantage of them & not make them myself.

[bravos1]

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Bravos1,the point of my original post was that I thought that it was absurd that anyone would NOT raise PF with big pairs. I'm filing these lame plays that players make so I will recognize them, take advantage of them & not make them myself.

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OK.. move along...nothing to see here then

[BJK]

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I always raise big pairs in LHE. I don't always reraise big pairs though.

If I feel like I'm already getting the field I want to play my pair against, whether HU or 3way, then I will sometimes s/c to disguise the strength of my hand. If I want to narrow the field further, I pop it.

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The only time I ever cold call with big pairs preflop is with position against skilled opponents in a tight game, and neither condition is very common. I know too many players who will cold call 3 or 4 bets in late position with crap to do otherwise.

[BJK]

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Why is it that some good BB players do not raise with their AA & KK on the on the big blind when everybody limped in?

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I think you've just defined someone who is not a good BB player.

[BJK]

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Why is it that some good BB players do not raise with their AA & KK on the on the big blind when everybody limped in?

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1) They're not as good as you think.
2) Something about the limpers makes them think they will make more on future rounds if they don't raise.
3) This is the one chink in their armour.

Good players don't pass up huge amounts of equity like this. Not at small stakes. In bigger games with knowledgable opponents, I don't know. But not down here with the fishies.


Big pairs have to be raised pre-flop. It doesn't matter if you're doing the raising or you let someone else do it (limp/cap...whatever). They need to be raised.

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Sorry mypost is not so clear, what I'm trying to say is that these good players dont raise the pot when on big blinds on a family pot meaning everybody is in. They do however raise it on the big blind when its not a family pot.

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This doesn't make much of a difference, really. If there are 7+ players limping in front of the BB, it is EV+ to raise ANY pocket pair if only for set value.

[BJK]

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Playing live 2/4. 3/6 Almost every time I play now I see a few people who never ever raise with TT on up. I saw a lady yesterday not rasie PF with TT and she ended up winning the pot but because she didn't raise PF the pot never got that big. Same thing with some guy who had KK. He ended up winning a fair sized pot with his hand but it should have been twice the size as it was. Yea yea I know, most LHE players suck but these types of players are really hard to read at times because they never raise with big pairs. I guess you have to make a mental note on who plays this way at your table and bookmark it in your cranium.

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There are a lot of correct opinions in this thread, but not really any meat to the discussion.

The reason why AA should be raised preflop, even in a ten way pot, is because of pot equity considerations, and the only way to understand why is to run AA through pokerstove to check out the results. I selected several hands that had a good chance of running down AA while making sure that both other A's were taken so AA will not improve. I ran the results in a ten way pot, and I found that the worst preflop equity I could get with AA was about 28%, and I was trying to get it as low as possible by manually selecting the villains' holdings. Against 9 random hands, AA comes up with 30% equity pretty consistantly, so it is true that AA will lose MOST of the time in those spots.

However, the key here is that AA is only putting in 10% of the money preflop. So, what we have here is an overlay...a gambler's dream. If I'm only putting 10% of the money into a pot that I"m going to win 30% of the time, why should I hold back? I want to risk as much as possible.

Then, we need to consider this. The guy who limps with AA is saving the table a lot of bets in the long run.