25NL: passive line with TPTK

Miko · #1 03-03-2007, 08:23 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($25.80)
Button ($48.90)
SB ($29.89)
BB ($25.65)
UTG ($27.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75.

Turn: ($5.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $3.5, Hero calls $3.50.

River: ($12.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $8, Hero calls $8.

Didn't knew what was the best option on the flop. Either raising or calling. After the flop raising is stupid imo, I don't want to play for stacks.

Villain is: 15/10/3 over 250 hands.

And I'm not sure about the river too...

monkover · #2 03-03-2007, 08:30 AM

I don´t like your play at all. But before I comment could you please tell me why a flop raise is so tupid in your opinion? Maybe I´m copletely wrong... don´t wnna get flamed for saying raise the flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Although I think you have to...

Miko · #3 03-03-2007, 08:35 AM

I said that raising his donks after the flop (on turn and river) is stupid.. cause I don't want to play for stacks (right?)...

On the flop it's raise/call. And when I call I play the whole hand passivly, right?

monkover · #4 03-03-2007, 08:43 AM

Yeah pretty much but in this hand I´d really like to be the agressor. If you raise the flop and he reraises you´re pretty much done with the hand. The problem is if he has a set either a set of 8s or 2s ( I doubt he just calls preflop with JJ) you pay him off the whole way...
Which hand do you think that are in his rage that you get more value from playing this way? Do you think he´d go all the way with a worse J? In that case you get more value from calling him down. Would he fires 3 barrells as a bluff? I don´t think so? If he has a set do you pay him off all the way? Yes you do.
So imo it is the best play to raise the flop here b/c you know where you are in the hand and don´t have to pay 2 more streets if you´re behind...

BlueArchon · #5 03-03-2007, 08:53 AM

Raise the flop and find out where you're at. You've called
all the way which is definitely not the best way to play this hand. On the river you beat nothing. The only draw on the flop was 9T and that got there. Unless you have a red that villain may play QJ or KJ like this I fold the river.

So in summary,
(a) Raise flop and proceed depending on action
(b) As played, fold river.

Thremp · #6 03-03-2007, 09:01 AM

Weird.

I've never seen a villain donk three streets well I have and I usually stalk off with a AQ hand. You probably played the hand optimally. If he checks turn and river I vbet river while checking turn through. I check behind river if he doesn't donk that.

Villain probably has a set though. Make a note. This is out of line play people try to watch.

monkover · #7 03-03-2007, 09:09 AM

thremp:
I think you´ve got way more experience than me, so could you please explain why you wouldn´t raise the flop?
In retrospect you know that villain whould donk 3 streets but if you didn´t would you have played it the same all the way?
b/c I think raising the flop is still the superior play...