Hand from a cardrunners video

[JoeKing]

I was watching Mkind's most recent cardrunners video, and there was one hand i had a question about.

It was a $33 MTT and it was the final 3 tables i believe. Mkind had 44k with the blinds at 1k/2k.

Cutoff opens for 4k with a 59k stack and Mkind is in the BB with 88.
Mkind just pushed all in but i thought that was a bit of an overbet. Am i wrong in thinking this? Could he have gotten away with a raise to 12k-14k? Or maybe even a call?

It just seemed like pushing 20+ BB's to a min raise was a slight overbet, but perhaps i am wrong.

Any thoughts on this?

[JoseGonzlez]

In my mind its better to win an uncontested pot with 88 than let your opponent see a flop because his most likely holdings are overcards.

You could raise to 12K 13K but if you are not folding to a repush which most times im not than shoving is better.

It really does not stop you from necessarily winning a big pot and you get alot of hands that you are flipping with to fold.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
In my mind its better to win an uncontested pot with 88 than let your opponent see a flop because his most likely holdings are overcards.


[/ QUOTE ]


So you are saying you'd rather instantly win 7k chips than see a flop? Going out on quite the limb there!

[DiscipleAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my mind its better to win an uncontested pot with 88 than let your opponent see a flop because his most likely holdings are overcards.


[/ QUOTE ]


So you are saying you'd rather instantly win 7k chips than see a flop? Going out on quite the limb there!

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP w/ a pair of 8's yes, sorry curtains but I have to agree with Jose here, Although I dont like the push still, I raise to ~12k... and while it is true that pushing increases FE, it also decreases the # of hands with which you are beating when the chips go in...

[bluefish]

but isnt it true that to make trips on the flop its 1:7? and also you are OOP, so what happens when you raise and get called, and the flop comes AQx and he bets out of about 1/2-2/3pot or push? Thats a tough decision right there...
Also how do you play it if he pushes your raise preflop? throwing away 1/5 of your chips, you have to call which at most seems like a coinflip.

[QuattroFour4]

1) 88 is 85% to flop a set, so he's in good shape if his push is called
2) The other 35%, when an 8 doesn't come on the flop, I like this push here anyway. At this stage in the tournament, minraises mean nothing 95% of the time. OOP with 88, winning the pot right here is a great idea. If you just raise normally and you get called, 88 is then hard to play postflop. In addition, the stacks aren't deep enough to do any fancy tricks postflop either. I like the push followed by the uncontested gain of his monies, kthxbye.

[BananaDan]

[ QUOTE ]
1) 88 is 85% to flop a set

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh?
[ QUOTE ]
2) The other 35%, when an 8 doesn't come on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this one of those leveling things you seem to like so much at this board or what.

[NU Star]

[ QUOTE ]
1) 88 is 85% to flop a set, so he's in good shape if his push is called
2) The other 35%, when an 8 doesn't come on the flop, I like this push here anyway. At this stage in the tournament, minraises mean nothing 95% of the time. OOP with 88, winning the pot right here is a great idea. If you just raise normally and you get called, 88 is then hard to play postflop. In addition, the stacks aren't deep enough to do any fancy tricks postflop either. I like the push followed by the uncontested gain of his monies, kthxbye.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, WTF?

[rppkoz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) 88 is 85% to flop a set, so he's in good shape if his push is called
2) The other 35%, when an 8 doesn't come on the flop, I like this push here anyway. At this stage in the tournament, minraises mean nothing 95% of the time. OOP with 88, winning the pot right here is a great idea. If you just raise normally and you get called, 88 is then hard to play postflop. In addition, the stacks aren't deep enough to do any fancy tricks postflop either. I like the push followed by the uncontested gain of his monies, kthxbye.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

PokerStars Game #8732694556: Tournament #43970618, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2007/03/04 - 10:14:40 (ET)
Table '43970618 10' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: G-De-Gus (2360 in chips)
Seat 2: kimmyv (11705 in chips)
Seat 3: up2damouth (5148 in chips)
Seat 4: MiStY_fr (3240 in chips)
Seat 5: nemecheck (5115 in chips)
Seat 6: hwgdf (2525 in chips)
Seat 7: rppkoz (9590 in chips)
Seat 8: sledge13 (5830 in chips)
G-De-Gus: posts the ante 25
kimmyv: posts the ante 25
up2damouth: posts the ante 25
MiStY_fr: posts the ante 25
nemecheck: posts the ante 25
hwgdf: posts the ante 25
rppkoz: posts the ante 25
sledge13: posts the ante 25
kimmyv: posts small blind 100
up2damouth: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rppkoz [Ad Ac]
MiStY_fr: folds
nemecheck: folds
hwgdf: folds
rppkoz: raises 400 to 600
sledge13: raises 5205 to 5805 and is all-in
G-De-Gus: folds
kimmyv: folds
up2damouth: folds
rppkoz: calls 5205
*** FLOP *** [8d 6c Qc]
*** TURN *** [8d 6c Qc] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [8d 6c Qc 3h] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rppkoz: shows [Ad Ac] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
sledge13: shows [8s 8c] (a full house, Eights full of Threes)
sledge13 collected 12110 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12110 | Rake 0
Board [8d 6c Qc 3h 3c]
Seat 1: G-De-Gus (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: kimmyv (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: up2damouth (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: MiStY_fr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: nemecheck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: hwgdf folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: rppkoz showed [Ad Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 8: sledge13 showed [8s 8c] and won (12110) with a full house, Eights full of Threes