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#31
03-01-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
This is good like 35% of the time
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#32
03-01-2007, 06:55 PM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] yes it is a bluff but his range is so small to call here (10x, jj-aa, ax of spades, k10-kj spades) villian is going to fold >50% of the time here, plus ur setting up driving everyone at the table crazy when ur c-r'ing with anything and not the nuts or nut draws only. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I agree with this logic. That's pretty much my thinking when I'm making this play. Also, right or wrong, another motive behind my raising here is my feeling that villain is going to fire a second barrel very near the size of the pot here no matter what comes if I just call. [/ QUOTE ] How is this a bad thing? If you know this, then in that case you likely still ahead of his range on the turn unless a very bad card falls. Heros hand is very vunerable, but is it not worht the chance to get an almost psb on the turn? do you expect him to 3barrel a lot?
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#33
03-01-2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] yes it is a bluff but his range is so small to call here (10x, jj-aa, ax of spades, k10-kj spades) villian is going to fold >50% of the time here, plus ur setting up driving everyone at the table crazy when ur c-r'ing with anything and not the nuts or nut draws only. [/ QUOTE ] Yea I agree with this logic. That's pretty much my thinking when I'm making this play. Also, right or wrong, another motive behind my raising here is my feeling that villain is going to fire a second barrel very near the size of the pot here no matter what comes if I just call. [/ QUOTE ] How is this a bad thing? If you know this, then in that case you likely still ahead of his range on the turn unless a very bad card falls. Heros hand is very vunerable, but is it not worht the chance to get an almost psb on the turn? do you expect him to 3barrel a lot? [/ QUOTE ] It's a bad thing, I think, for a lot of reasons. First of all, if I'm ahead and just calling, I'm giving him two chances to draw out here...my hand is fairly vulnerable almost no matter what he has. If he does draw out or ended up having the best hand from the very beginning, he's still going to be betting near pot a lot of the time on turn, in which case I'll be calling off a lot of dollars when I'm behind and with a very mediocre chance of improving. Also, he is definitely capable of firing a third barrel with absolutely nothing or as a pretty thin value bet...putting me in a tough spot. This player is very good...so you have to factor that into the equation somehow. By raising I think he'll probably fold everything but top pair or a good draw the majority of the time. If he calls I wasted $400 and I'm beat....
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#34
03-01-2007, 09:52 PM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ike is saying there's no reasn to c/r medium strength hands--he didn't say you shouldn't c/r air. [/ QUOTE ] agree. this hand has too much value to c/r with. c/r draws, air, monsters. dont c/r hands which might be ahead, but which you dont want to put more money in with. [/ QUOTE ] But wouldnt you agree that our hand is pretty transparent at that point? Called a raise OOP ( I dont do that often unless I have some sort of pair or AJ+) I think a CR is fine because it makes the rest of the streets much easier. If you just call flop and dont turn a 7 he can pretty much bet any 2 cards (and often will) and take it away from you on the turn. I use this line sparingly, but I think its more useful than what anyone is giving it credit for. If he calls Id probably shut down but Id say you get a fold about 70% of time
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#35
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
if he's autofiring two bullets then it's much more profitable to check/call two streets -- he won't outdraw you enough to make up for the 2nd pot bet he's going to put in with air
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#36
03-02-2007, 12:08 AM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
This is from aba's CR chat last night.
Zimba: What do you think is the most common misunderstood concept(s) of the game, even by many good players? What is the best way to fix it? Brian: I think people who check raise with weak made hands is a huge mistake I see Brian: an example would be calling preflop with KTo from a CO open Brian: then check raising a K44 rainbow flop and not knowing what to do when opponent goes all in
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#37
03-02-2007, 12:18 AM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
that's completely different from the situation in this hand.
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#39
03-02-2007, 12:33 AM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
not exactly, technically it's different but they are both weak made hands. the theory is still correct since both hands only beat a bluff when shoved on.
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#40
03-02-2007, 01:11 AM
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Re: I do this sometimes 10/20NL
[ QUOTE ]
You're turning a made hand into a bluff. There is no reason to do this. Check call is better. [/ QUOTE ] i think people way overestimate the importance of this concept a lot of the time for a lot of reasons...
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