Turning preflop lemons into lemonade...

[Knoler]

Fold preflop, I don't think 2.3:2 is enough to steal with this trash. I just call on the flop. ...and you have to raise this turn. If SB is on a draw, he might not bet the river. If he's got top pair, he might check a scary river card. Extract the maximum.

-Brian

[jskills]

I fold PF. I don't care.

I'd raise the turn for sure. I think the hand plays out differently at that point. There's got to be a decent chance you could see him fold at that point.

I don't like him seeing that river card for one bet when you've turned two pair, especially since it looks very much like he's holding AQ. I'm guessing this from his turn donk - he's putting your flop raise down to a free card move for the flush maybe? And he donks the safe turn, because he's not afraid of you holding a better Q. Just some speculation ...

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's awful because you have 54o and MP is unknown. In about 60k hands of 6max, I've picked up a pot preflop with a poster exactly once.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often do you try? It seems to me like you should open up your stealing range when there's a poster, since you have to be successful less often to show a profit...

...but I'll agree you shouldn't open it up this much. I was under the impression that it was 2+2 dogma to raise any two after a poster, but I think I'm confusing it with the situation where it's checked to you and you're the poster.

In this situation, you're getting about the exact odds needed to play any two cards against random hands heads-up -- unfortunately you've also got a good chance of not being heads-up. Still, if you're not, you'll get more overlay to your bet and you may pick up the pot on the flop too. Initiative and position will help here.

I like looking for these situations where you can play the situation more than the cards -- but I think this time I needed to be against players who I was more sure were going to fold (rather than unknowns). Thanks for the responses.


Results: <font color="white"> Villain had K9o and MHIG </font>

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Just calling the turn seems really bad to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed... if we're making lemonade, we might as well make it well... don't forget the sugar and all that good stuff.

Raise the turn.

I also don't particularly like pre-flop as when someone jumps into a 6max game posting in that position they are basically telling you that they're a fish and aren't going to fold nicely for you. Oh, yeah, and you have 5 high.

[danzasmack]

1) Fold pf.

2) RAISE TURN.

[Happydaz]

PF: Yuck, man, the poster is rarely if ever folding here and the blinds will be induced to call by the extra SB in the pot. Fold this trash, it's awful.

Flop: I can't decide which is better: a fold, call or a raise. I think raising is slightly better than calling, assuming if he checks the turn our turn bet is the last time we put money in this pot UI. Folding is probably a mistake with our two pair/trip outs in a raised pot.

Turn: SB is telling you he has a Q or 9 and doesn't want to give you a free card if you're on a draw. He could also be donking because he improved, but there's only two fives left. I doubt it helped him. Raise him. He's not going to fold after donking both streets and your two pair is probably good.

River: Oh, so you put him on AQ, Q9 or A9 and decided to just call down? You didn't raise the turn so I assumed you were going to raise the river. Argh.

Overall, this hand just baffles me. You raised PF with total trash when you knew there was a great chance you were getting called, you raised when your hand was probably behind then failed to put in money when your hand was likely the best. I see no lemonade in this post.

[gharp]

Right -- preflop was a misapplication of a concept and the turn was me being a scared little weak-tight nancy-boy, afraid of the scary monsters under my frilly pink crib. I turned my lemons into nothing but piss. Let's just let this post drop off the front page already... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TomBrooks]

I'd pretty much play this the opposite of how you did... fold preflop, fold the flop, raise the turn.