Multi-tabling and The Hours...

[Rubin]

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many "real world" jobs have TONS of downtime whereas 1 brain fart costs us $. 12 tabling cash game would probably be like 2-5x

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I agree generally, but it can make a big difference job to job. When I waited tables I can tell you that most shifts I worked had more tough, quick decisions per hour than one game of online poker for sure. And overall I found waiting tables more stressful and mentally taxing than 3 tabling stud. There's a lot of quick "time management" decisions I had to make that carry more weight than almost any decision I've made playing limit poker. And I can't say all the "smaller" poker decisions add up to something more strenuous either. I might feel different if I were a NLHE multitabler. I waited tables roughly 7 years, and am a full time poker player roughly 7 years as well. So I think I know what I'm talking about when I say that I'm pretty damn old.

[SammyKid11]

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I have always thought the most similar job is Air Traffic Controller. Granted, when we make a mistake people don't die, but I think the rest of the job is similar. Sit at a computer and have simple physical actions. (Move a mouse, click a button) Similar mental tasks. Analyse the situation, make a decision. And we both have to constantly be making decisions. Poker players make 8 a minute (or whatever) whereas ATCs make continious decisions, but there is very minimal "break" time between decisions.

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For reasons that should go without explanation, it would seem absolutely ridiculous to most people to compare online poker to air traffic control. However, I wonder if the comparison is not actually all that bad. Yes, no one's lives are on the line if we screw up at online poker, but it might be very similar in terms of the mental toll that it takes to work a certain number of hours per week.

I've always compared it a little to what my dad does for a living. He's a morning show DJ on a very high-paced comedy and variety show. There are a ton of decisions to make with regards to content that he and his partner have to deal with, and he's also the board operator for the entire five-person team (that includes him, his partner, the producer, the newsman, and the traffic lady). So for 5 hours each morning, he works a job that requires a lot of concentration. But then he only has an average of about another hour worth of stuff to do around the station, and he goes home. His white-collar stiff friends who are attorneys and salesmen and accountants, etc., always seem to marginalize his hours (that he only works about 30 on average with weekend appearances)...yet they fail to recognize all of the time they spend at work jacking off vs. the fact that when my dad's there, it's a constant mental grind that doesn't let up for 5 hours.

I think that may be another good analogy.

I bring this up basically because I think it's important for us to start changing minds about what it is we do. I know the people who are morally opposed to gambling because of their religion aren't likely to change their opinions. But there are run-of-the-mill people every day that know nothing about what a professional poker player (either online or live) really does for a living...and when I encounter these people, I'm always looking for ways to explain to them that it's not some [censored] joke.

[SammyKid11]

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A while ago I read in article in Time that said the average American worker wastes two hours out of every eight hour work day doing non productive stuff like getting coffee, using the bathroom, chatting, etc.

I don't really have a point, it just seemed relevant.

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Well, if that's the case, that would indicate the answer is 1.33 for every hour. However, I'd be willing to argue that the mental awareness needed for multi-tabling NLHE compared to the awareness levels required by other jobs is much higher...so for the moment, my estimate is still around 1.5.....40 hours of poker is equivalent to putting in 60 at a "regular" office job.

Of course, every job is different. If you're a surgeon, your concentration level needs to be much higher than for doing what we do. But, I also don't think most surgeons actually perform surgery for 40 hours a week. Buddy of mine is an orthopedic surgeon...he is usually only in surgery about 14 hours per week over two days, with the other three days used in-office to see routine patients. Now, 14 hours of surgery is probably like 35 hours of regular work...with another 24 spent in-office, I'm sure it feels very much like a 60+ hour per week job.

[MicroBob]

Sammy - I think clicking buttons at home is pretty much an auto-pilot video-game type of thing for the most part.
I agree it's not as easy as some people make it out to be.
But I'm really not sure it's as hard as you are making itout to be.

Yeah, you have to stop and think about which decision you have to make. But I don't think it's THAT insanely taxing or exhasting. The biggest problem with all the multi-tabling imo is when you start to lose concentration and just can't motivate yourself to stay focused...or you don't have the discipline to get the hell out of some silly thread on 2+2 and get to work (raises hand).


I think a morning DJ has to keep up with stuff a lot more and be way more motivated.
You have to be peppy and alive when you come back on. At 6am that's no easy task.

I've worked in radio doing morning news and sports and also some DJ work.
Most of my radio work was live sports play-by-play at various ballparks or arenas where I'd have to scramble to set up stuff, go run and get an interview, have all my rosters and so forth put together, etc.

In my opinion, cranking out the news-copy as fast as you can each morning or conducting an entire 3-hour sports broadcast is WAY more taxing and exhausting than anything I have ever experienced in online-poker.
And I think DJ'ing is somewhat similar.

Lots of caffeine involved because you care about giving your very best and really having a good show that day. All that peppy banter on the air (as well as all the organizing and button-pushing behind the scenes) takes ENERGY. And you don't have the energy that day...too freaking bad. Suck it up and be peppy because that's what you're getting paid to do.

No, it's not the hardest work in the world either to be a DJ or morning-news guy.

But you do have to really keep up with things and I don't think sitting back and essentially playing a mental video-game all day like you do with online-poker really comes as close to that.


Air-traffic controller is obviously more stressful too of course.
The decision making stuff and the rate at which it's done might be somewhat similar but you are always aware that if you make a mistake then people die.
So it gets stressful pretty fast.
Constant focus because if you don't have that then you get fired, people die, and you have the most immense amount of guilt imaginable.

In online-poker the stress comes from having a 200BB downswing and just taking beat after beat.
So there is stress in that too, but of a different variety of course.


I feel significantly less stress in my online-poker job, even with downswings, than I ever did working as a radio broadcaster.

[checkit888]

I don't know how everyone can multi table more than 3 or 4 at a time. It gives me a headache. It was easy back then with full ring games, I could do 3 to 5 tables and have time to breath.

Now with the 6max tables, I can't do more than 3. It games me a headache. my quality of play goes down. I can't read hands well, since the other table decisions pop up so much quicker. I must be getting old or something.

With regards to the hours. even if you put in 40 hours of poker a week, you shouldn't be involved in more than 30-40% of the hands your deal with. right? so its not a total 100% all poker all the time.

[MicroBob]

ummm, if you're multi-tabling you're likely to be involved in a hand on one of your tables.
Involved with 33% of your hands whbile playing 3 tables means that you are involved in a hand on 1 of your tables at a time on average.

And there are still decisions to be made on the hands you don't get involved in, "Crap. Do I want to re-raise him here and take him on or fold and let them duke it out? Screw it, I fold."
Didn't get involved pre-flop but still had to actually think about it.


And some players also like to take a peak at what their opponents are doing even when they aren't involved in a hand with them.


I'm 36 and don't have much problem playing 6-tables of 6-max.
Once I put up those 7th and 8th tables it sometimes goes fast enough that I become a losing player.

Playing on 3-4 tables feels like slow-motion to me now unless one or two of them are 2-4 handed or something.

[leatherass]

I have had this same discussion with people too. I would say 1.5 is a fair number against a person with this type of job.

[prodonkey]

3.14

[ematz]

Bob Slydell: You see, what we're actually trying to do here is, we're trying to get a feel for how people spend their day at work... so, if you would, would you walk us through a typical day, for you?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah.
Bob Slydell: Great.
Peter Gibbons: Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door - that way Lumbergh can't see me, heh heh - and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour.
Bob Porter: Da-uh? Space out?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

[TheMetetron]

1.5-2 job hours = 1 hour of poker

Somewhere around that range sounds about right.

This is me 8-12 tabling no limit 6max or 10-16 tabling limit 6max.