Not raising Big pairs PF

[argybargy2002]

Not a hell of a lot to say here other than raising big pairs is +ev and so when your opponents don't raise their big pairs they are missing out on value and decreasing thier chances to win the pot. Whatever you do don't discourage them from limping their pairs.

It's always beautiful to win a pot with AT by spiking an ace against KK.

[Scarmiglio]

Not raising Big pairs PF = Stupid. Definitely keep track of who plays this way, but don't credit them with a big pair every time you're in a hand with them. I tend to slow down with middle 1 pair type hands against these players, however you can extract huge value from them with big pairs and big hands as these players also usually play their big pair to the river regardless of the board. I've seen these players call 3bb cold on the turn with pocket QQ when the board was AK99.

[Frond]

I never discourage opponets from making dumb plays, ever. I just mentally shake my head and try and make note of them as they come along which is often at lower limits.

I admit that in my pre-SSHE past I used to be a non-raiser of TT,JJ & various other PF raising hands when playing LHE. Boy did I put a stop to that practice.

[ncskiier]

I always raise big pairs in LHE. I don't always reraise big pairs though.

If I feel like I'm already getting the field I want to play my pair against, whether HU or 3way, then I will sometimes s/c to disguise the strength of my hand. If I want to narrow the field further, I pop it.

[HoneyBadger]

I raise them 95% of the time, depending on conditions. Well, with them I pretty much mean AA, because I raise KK 99.9% of the time and JJ/QQ always. I don't always cap when it comes back to me 3bet, and I sometimes just cold call TT/JJ depending on what happened.

[PorkchopDJG]

There may a few instances that I don't raise with a big pair before the flop. These are all limit holdem I don't know how or if it would change in no limit.
1) It's a super loose/passive type game and I have QQ or JJ in the SB or BB and 5 people have already limped in.
EXPLANATION: You raise to make people fold or build the pot if you raise here it's likely everyone else will call anyway then when the flop comes without a Q but with an A or K you are dead. Even without an A or K it is somewhat likely that someone may have caught two pair, trips or a huge draw in this multiway pot. With AA and KK I'm still probably raising from the blinds but with AK,QQ and JJ I don't really see the point. From early position yes because some may fold but from the blind no.
2) I'm in a loose/aggressive or tight/aggressive game and I have AA or KK in the BB and someone open raises from late position.
EXPLANATION:From the SB you would raise for sure to isolate the raiser and lock out the BB from calling but from the big blind you sometimes may 3bet it but you could also just call hoping to disguise your hand and raise after the aggressive player bets the flop.
3) I'm in a loose/aggressive or tight/aggressive game and I haven't played a hand in a long time and it gets folded to me in late position and I have AA I may just limp.
EXPLANATION- The aggressive guys will see this as pure weekness and raise it and maybe if someone has something like AK they threebet it allowing me to cap it when it gets back to me.

So I would say in general it's best to raise with all big pairs before the flop but there may be some circumstances when you can mix it up and play it a little differently to throw people off.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
There may a few instances that I don't raise with a big pair before the flop. These are all limit holdem I don't know how or if it would change in no limit.
1) It's a super loose/passive type game and I have QQ or JJ in the SB or BB and 5 people have already limped in.

[/ QUOTE ]

YUCK! You are losing money by not raising here.[ QUOTE ]

EXPLANATION: You raise to make people fold or build the pot if you raise here it's likely everyone else will call anyway

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course they will, and I want them to, I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] money!
[ QUOTE ]

then when the flop comes without a Q but with an A or K you are dead. Even without an A or K it is somewhat likely that someone may have caught two pair, trips or a huge draw in this multiway pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHA.. you already have MUBS and we haven't even see a flop!
[ QUOTE ]

With AA and KK I'm still probably raising from the blinds but with AK,QQ and JJ I don't really see the point.

[/ QUOTE ]
The point is $$$, cash, benjamins, cheddah, what ever you want to call it! At least you are raising AA/KK.
[ QUOTE ]
From early position yes because some may fold but from the blind no.

[/ QUOTE ] Why do you want people to FOLD??? Arrghhh, we are raising for VAL-YOU!
[ QUOTE ]

2) I'm in a loose/aggressive or tight/aggressive game and I have AA or KK in the BB and someone open raises from late position.
EXPLANATION:From the SB you would raise for sure to isolate the raiser and lock out the BB from calling but from the big blind you sometimes may 3bet it but you could also just call hoping to disguise your hand and raise after the aggressive player bets the flop.

[/ QUOTE ] Again, you are losing $$ here. What happens when the guy checks his TT behind on a QJ2 flop? When I most likely have the best hand, I want to have other people putting money in my pot![ QUOTE ]

3) I'm in a loose/aggressive or tight/aggressive game and I haven't played a hand in a long time and it gets folded to me in late position and I have AA I may just limp.
EXPLANATION- The aggressive guys will see this as pure weekness and raise it and maybe if someone has something like AK they threebet it allowing me to cap it when it gets back to me.

[/ QUOTE ] Good job 3betting by the guy w/ AK, at least he is playing good poker. Most people have no clue regarding how the other people around them are playing. You can sit at a table and fold the next 30 hands.. then wake up w/ AA in EP and raise only to have 2 others cold call w/ QTs and KJo. Why do they do this? Because they have no clue what is going on around them, they suck, and they want to give you all their chips.

So you limp AA in late position and go 3 handed to a T42 rainbow flop and get run over by SBs T4o. I see this all the time and usually here "Damn, I can not win w/ AA evah!" right after.
[ QUOTE ]

So I would say in general it's best to raise with all big pairs before the flop but there may be some circumstances when you can mix it up and play it a little differently to throw people off.

[/ QUOTE ]

In limit, there is rarely a case where this is true; at least in the games I have played up to 30/60 live.

I have seen it done in hyper-aggro NL games (referring to a LRR), but I suck at NL, so... no comment.

I will add that there are correct times to limp or cold call with hands like 99-QQ in tourneys, but we are not in that forum.

[Frond]

OP here. I think that maybe because I am starting to play more live LHE that I have been seeing a lot of limping in with big pairs. They are also the ones who are always calling and rarely raising at all. I guess because that I always raise em PF and reraise em that I am still a bit astounded when people flip over KK on the showdown and they won the pot but failed to raise the hand PF in or out of position at all. I am so programmed to play my agg PF style with big pairs that I am not yet used to it but I am starting to see a myriad of lame plays and trying to file them for present & future use.

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
I always raise big pairs in LHE. I don't always reraise big pairs though.

If I feel like I'm already getting the field I want to play my pair against, whether HU or 3way, then I will sometimes s/c to disguise the strength of my hand. If I want to narrow the field further, I pop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about if there are already several people that have already put in 3 bets?

[BJK]

[ QUOTE ]
I always raise big pairs in LHE. I don't always reraise big pairs though.

If I feel like I'm already getting the field I want to play my pair against, whether HU or 3way, then I will sometimes s/c to disguise the strength of my hand. If I want to narrow the field further, I pop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only time I ever cold call with big pairs preflop is with position against skilled opponents in a tight game, and neither condition is very common. I know too many players who will cold call 3 or 4 bets in late position with crap to do otherwise.