How do you handle an All-in all the time guy

[gmcarroll33]

I'm playing 1/2 with a slightly drunk guy, who gets in a pattern of raising $30 preflop with rags like q4 spades and hits a q or hits absolutely nothing, and he goes all in for a $600 stack. Sometimes he actually has something like pocket queens and he smooth calls, but on the flop no matter what he's all in.

Or he hits second pair, and he's all in. Or he has a monster flush draw and he's all in. Or a scare flush draw card hits on the turn when somebody has been betting the whole way, and he's all in. The only time I stacked this guy was when I had a set of 9s against his pair of Jacks on the flop, he declared all in and I won, but he bought back in for like $250 more.

Now my stack is at like $950 and I've bought in for $500 and my $400 loss from Saturday has been covered. I get Kings and raise $10, he rereaises to $30, I say all in, he doesn't even hesitate to call with A7 offsuit for his whole stack. Flop comes 773, his trips beat my Kings.

Then later on at about 5 a.m. he's been doing his all in with top pair on like 3 shown flops. I get pocket 10s. Guy with AK hearts raises to $15, Mr. all-in raises all in, and gets insta called by the original raiser. Dealer kept saying here's your chance to get him. By then he had a $600 stack to match mine, and the other guy only had $174. Is it worth it here to risk losing $154 to the other guy, to have the possibility to get all-in's stack? Mr. All-in ended up only having 99, which held up to win the whole thing, but I couldn't force myself to get in there and do it with that insta call, and even if all-in only had 2 overs, my 10s were still very vunerable to being out flopped, turned, or rivered at any time during the hand, so I didn't feel it was right to gamble my whole stack on that possibility.

Later by about 6 a.m. he's been all in about 6 of every 10 hands, with top pair or a draw most time. Then he will cool down for 20 minutes and start it his all in routine all over again. Flop comes 7-8-10. He goes all in. I've got k-10. I think he's doing his usual top pair, or monster draw bs. I really debate and wonder what the odds are that he's got 2 pair, or that he has a 10 with a better kicker than mine. I finally decide he's might have j-10 at best or q-10 maybe and I call him. But sure enough he has j-9 for the nut straight and he takes my whole stack and acts like a drunk [censored] to me as he takes my chips. I took it like a man and didn't say anything back to him and walked away though.

Obviously these calls didn't turn out the way I hoped, but what am I supposed to do against this guy? Do I pretty much have to wait for the nuts, which is what I was doing the whole night with everybody, just because of the fear of his all in bet on every hand I had money involved in.

Also, was my call on the last hand that bad? When you see a guy pushing top pair left and right all night long (several times with J-10 with 10 high on the board by the way), how wrong is it to committ my whole stack on top pair to see if I've finally caught him with a slightly better hand? Right now I'm highly angry at myself for not leaving when I was up $450 just because I thought I could stack him when I picked up the nuts or something. It seemed like if I stuck around and waited long enough I could stack him on a bluff, but it never happened. Oh, I wish I had left at about 3 a.m.

[Smasharoo]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/po...mp;Board=beats

[ATauO1]

Walk away in a cash game if they get to you- don't even bother playing guys like these, if they get under your skin then all you do is focus on them and forget about the rest of the money on the table. It becomes a us Vs. him table and you forget about playing everyone else. If you want to play the table try to stay out of his way and let him frustrate everyone else at the table, this will focus the tables attention at him not you.

Honestly if you want to tangle with this type of player you need a bankroll that can take the hits when he gets lucky- you have to be able to reraise and call his allins when you have a hand-


To beat him remember its not just you and him- its a whole table of players.. You can't just focus and say "I'm going to get this guy" because then your judgement gets clouded and usually you start playing too loose trying to play his game and not YOUR game...

Lets see the pocket 10's- well if you have the bankroll and the balls then you take the risk/ if you don't then let it go...

the K-10 ... Well, I think you played this bad...did you play this pre-flop because you knew its a good hand or because you thought it was better then what his starting hand would be... is it a good hand? Was it suited? (I hope it was)

I don't know if you raised/ called a raise or just limped or were blinded in...

the worst is if you limped or called the raise...best if you raised or were blinded in.
Now worse play in no limit holdem: calling all in with 1 pair...

I think this guy clouded your judgement and put you on tilt..this is what he wanted - and he got your chips..

Yeah, you should of left when you stacked him with the set... To beat a player in a all-in call/move you need the best hand.... and the best hand, sometimes its far and few between... Man, he would of been pissed off if you stacked him then walked off. That would of been the big play

[gmcarroll33]

The K-10 was the K-10 of spades, but there was no flush draw on the flop. And if he said he was all-in, everybody pretty much got out of his way every time, just because he was drunk enough, and that's just his poker style, to bet $600 into a $10 pot just to win it, but with this guy, putting him on any hand goes out the window. You either assume the worst, or that he's full of [censored] which was most of the time, but either way it's not worth $600 to find out. I have never gone broke with a pair in my life by the way, unless it was pocket aces when the flop had straight and flush draws. But against this guy, like I said, a single top pair was worth all his chips no matter what most of the time, so I made a wrong read. I mean if all he had was top pair, he probably needed a lot of help to beat my hand, since I had the K kicker. However, I know I was manipulated into playing badly. Like I said I've never gone broke with 1 pair. But, I took a major chance for all his chips and all of mine to see if I had him, which might have been likely in any other situation other than the nut straight. Ordinarily I won't do this, but in this situation I did and I'm feeling the pain today. $900 in 3 days out at this bar. Aces cost me $400 on Saturday, and a bad read at a table I should have left cost me $500 last night.

However, when you see a guy going all in with top pair all the time on the flop or a possible flush draw which could hit and crush you even if you have the current goods, has never once shown a set, and has gone all in one time with QQ on a board of J-5-8 after he slowplayed before the flop to make you think he had Jacks or was just bluffing, what can you honestly put this guy on or do with him? Reraising him with AK suited preflop wouldn't have done anything because if he had any pair 77 or better he probably would push all in, so then I'm basically coin flipping, and it's not really smart to coin flip non-stop with this guy is it?

I think your right that I basically needed to walk away from this game. It was not a good game for me. Every preflop raise was $20, or reraised to an all in by this guy. So if you had the implied odds to flop a set and stack somebody, it would be shot out the window by this guys's all in reraise to it. I think I got greedy in a game that wasn't profitable in the long run. I mean the only way I get his stack is to flop a set or the nuts, and have him represent it and take his money, but that wasn't going to happen often enough. It just seemed like I could double up so easy through 1 hand if I just grinded it out long enough against the guy.

[Hamlet]

This game should be highly profitable, but you can't play scared. You pushed with KK and he called with A7 and got lucky. If he is willing to put his whole stack in pre-flop with A7, you have to be willing to do it with AK. Sure, he is going to have you beat with a pair some of the time, but his range of hands will be worse than yours. You can't let a few bad hands affect your play. In a game like this, you are going to have $1000 swings. If you can't cope with that, you need to buy in for less or not play.

The KT hand is a little iffy. Even most top pair hands have 7 outs to beat you. And like you found out, even the drunks occassionally get dealt a real hand. If there is nothing in the pot it may be worth waiting for a better spot. At some point though, you are going to want to play top pair/top kicker for all your chips with this guy.

[ATauO1]

Walking away from a table doesn't mean that the table plays better than you do- Poker is not about who the better player is... its about the money. A great player takes the path of least resistance- the easy table... you want the easy money not "I am better player than he is, I know it and you should too" who cares? anyone? nope... the just want your money

Just like any top player in any sport- you can't win everytime...YOU CAN'T WIN EVERY TIME. Don't beat yourself up on losing just learn from your mistakes (if any, cause lucky suck outs are just that, luck it comes and goes and you will get lucky sometime).

Right now I suggest you do some studying/ critical thinking on how to deal with a super maniacs
Try reading some books at the bookstore- Phil Gorden (little Green Book) has a page in his book on how to play super maniacs, read the Small Stakes Holdem starting hand selection chapter-(its a limit holdem book but this chapter works really well on how to play starting hands against "raisers that will raise with anything". find some pro articles on the BLUFF and FULL TILT website-
Then put all these ideas together and think it out... really think it out. Formulate how you should play against this type of player- how you style could work..
Most importantly, stay focused on your game... sometimes it takes days to go off tilt and really think clear, I have seen many players lose it in a game and come back and lose again and again without ever really shaking off the first loss...

[matt85]

You sound as though you play scared so I would suggest either buying in for less or not playing.

If you do play you've just got to wait for big hands and thats all there is to it.

[mr_npiv]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you handle an All-in all the time guy

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what she said [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

sorry, couldnt resist

[Voltaire]

I disagree that this belongs in the other thread. This really is about theory: "how do you handle a maniac?" although you're right, it could easily go there as well.

[Voltaire]

I've played with a million guys like this, and like you I've gone home shaking my head. It's really a question of capital and willingness to risk as much as he is risking. If you realize that and you play better hands, you will win in the long run, just as long as he's not out-reading you. Sometimes these wild-seeming guys are not as wild as they look. In B&M NL the best talent is being able to read the other player and being unreadable. You can be the best technical player in the world, but if the other player is willing to gamble more AND can read better than you (not to mention be fairly unreadable himself) you will lose. Period.

I would need more information and a longer session with this guy to know whether he has an advantage over you or not.

One other thing: most players play better sober, but some players play better when they are more relaxed. Of course a truly drunk player does not play his best.