Hand reading 101 - LC but not NC

[Brian O'Nolan]

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did everyone notice that CO limped behind two limpers and then reraised? it's been my experience that this is a real hand a LOT less often than an open-limp/reraise.

I call this all day.

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For reals. Not 4 betting here pre is awful. There are plenty of players at this level who just don't fold queens and are limp reraising them for value. You should be 4 betting this all day if limp reraiser is UTG too.

[Jouster777]

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ugh I'd snapcall the flop.

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I called the flop.

I am a firm believer in the uNL paradox "Any maxim that includes the word NEVER or ALWAYS is never correct". This trumps the maxim "a limp reraise is always AA/KK". But there is still value in knowing the maxims.

If I'm going to call the flop I really should just push preflop, no?

Of course he had AA...but[ QUOTE ]
this means extremely little though. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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[Freelancer]

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ugh I'd snapcall the flop.

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I called the flop.

I am a firm believer in the uNL paradox "Any maxim that includes the word NEVER or ALWAYS is never correct". This trumps the maxim "a limp reraise is always AA/KK". But there is still value in knowing the maxims.

If I'm going to call the flop I really should just push preflop, no?

Of course he had AA...but[ QUOTE ]
this means extremely little though. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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You don't have to push preflop at all, although I prefer pushing preflop more with KK than AA. If villain is likely on a bluff with air your better of calling preflop and letting him continue the bluff. This also goes the same when his range is JJ+ and he gets it all in preflop with all of them, than its obviously more correct to shove preflop (scare cards can hit postflop that might scare the lower PP's).

[corsakh]

I am a little confused following this...

Say you have a read on him and you put him on AA-KK with 100% certainty preflop because of his limp raise. Fine.

He can have: AsAc, AsAh, AsAd, AcAh, AcAd, AhAc and KsKd. Thats 7 hands total.

You beat: 0 hands.
You draw: 1 hand.
You loose: 6 hands.

You are not given implied odds to hit a set.

My question is: why are you calling preflop?

- if you put him on AA-KK range you have to fold preflop;
- if you put him on AA-QQ range you have to call and shove on the flop unless a Q comes out, then you have to fold the flop.
- if you put him on a wide range, you have to shove preflop
or call and reevaluate on the flop.

However, you can not put someone on AA-KK, call them preflop and then think wtf to do on the flop. Too late, train is gone.

[Miko]

One general question considering putting people on ranges.

The less you know a villain, the tighter you assume his range to be? Or the looser...?

What I mean, do you include marginal hands you see in this spot by other (known) players or do you assume he has what he's representing and what he could likely have based on his (logical) line?

I'm struggling with this cause sometimes you put marginal hands (and see others do it) based on what we've seen before by other (less gifted) players but that are the bad players most of the time and we don't see the junk good players do it with.

So, in this example: Is putting him on AJ too here correct? Cause you've seen bad players do it.. (but you don't know if he's bad!).

[Antinome]

IMO an EP LRR is usually QQ+, but a LP overlimp RR is often someone who is merely offended at being squeezed. I wouldn't put them on anything better than AJ+99+.

Obviously 4bet preflop.