how many outs do i have here?

PokerBob · #1 02-24-2007, 02:15 PM

commerce 40 game. the major players here are BB and button.

BB is apparently a pro from Vegas, but I'm not sure where I heard that. He has kinda longish hair and is balding a bit and has wild eyes. He looks like he has the feet of children in his freezer. Earlier I played this hand vs. him:

I raise a limper or 2 in late position with KJs in black, he calls in the SB, BB calls.
Flop: QJ4 with a red flush draw, he c/rs and i call.
Turn HU: black 8, he bets i call.
river: black T, he check, I check. He has J9o. He is an idiot.

Button is an old Persian guy who eariler was told by a younger Persian dude that he is on Young Persian Dude's Black List. Younger Persian Dude also called this guy a woman earlier. Button is capable of stupid donk bets and random dumb bets on the flop, but I have never seen him do anything out of line on the big streets.

The hand:

3 players limp, i limp 44, button limps, blinds come along.

Flop many ways: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB check, some moron bets, call, call, I raise, button cold-call, BB now check/3towns, call, fold, I call deciding to pon LaGasolina en La Esquina, button calls.

turn 4 ways for around 10BB bets: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets, moron folds, I raise, button coldcalls, BB now 3bets, I say a bad word and call, button now does the always popular coldcall/cap, BB calls, I say yet another bad word and do what? Am I happy with anything other than a 4?

bigjoet · #2 02-24-2007, 02:28 PM

a 9 might be ok too...

lol.. it's funny i had almost exactly the same situation yesterday... kt4, 2 hearts, i hit the 4 on the turn though...

Faststan · #3 02-24-2007, 02:59 PM

Would not K,s,T's and 9's raise Pf even if they are morons.

I think K's and T's and maybe 9's(50/50)would raise PF even if they are morons.You are probably up against a straight(open ender on flop)and diamond draw and maybe a set of 9's.
You need a 4 to win and a boat to probably win.
3K's,3T's,39's divided by 2=41/2 outs plus a 4=51/2 outs

PokerBob · #4 02-24-2007, 03:01 PM

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Would not K,s,T's and 9's raise Pf even if they are morons.

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yes. but old dude is capable of have something retarded like K9, KT or T9 here.

Faststan · #5 02-24-2007, 03:25 PM

Therefore call 1 more bet because you cannot raise(capped)

Justin A · #6 02-24-2007, 03:28 PM

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Would not K,s,T's and 9's raise Pf even if they are morons.

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yes. but old dude is capable of have something retarded like K9, KT or T9 here.

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You mean button? why do you even need outs if this is the case?

Smarty · #7 02-24-2007, 04:01 PM

Looking at the hand action, I cannot shake the idea that they BOTH have QJ. No sets really make sense here given preflop and flop action. I think anything that pairs the board gives you the hand.

PokerBob · #8 02-24-2007, 04:53 PM

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Would not K,s,T's and 9's raise Pf even if they are morons.

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yes. but old dude is capable of have something retarded like K9, KT or T9 here.

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You mean button? why do you even need outs if this is the case?

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well, i should have stated that either could have 2 pair. I was almost certain that one of them turned the joint.

HOWMANY · #9 02-24-2007, 08:28 PM

This coldcall/cap [censored] is driving me crazy. HOW DO THESE IDIOTS GET THE NUTS AND THEN MAGICALLY KNOW TO CALL LIKE A FISH BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE WILL RAISE AGAIN AFTER THEM? THEY ARE MAXIMIZING VALUE ON ACCIDENT WITH THEIR RETARDED PLAY.

So anyway, a K is probably never good. T is maybe not good. 9 is good probably. 4 is good. I'd call and honestly only get aggressive if I made quads. If they both made a straight I guess we miss out on value if we fill up, but if we raise paired board and get 3bet we have to fold, yet my rule of thumb is never fold a full house for 1 bet if the board isn't double paired, so folding would make me explode.

Pot is huge on the river but we almost certainly have a losing hand at least one way. Are you showing down anyway?

PokerBob · #10 02-24-2007, 08:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This coldcall/cap [censored] is driving me crazy. HOW DO THESE IDIOTS GET THE NUTS AND THEN MAGICALLY KNOW TO CALL LIKE A FISH BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE WILL RAISE AGAIN AFTER THEM? THEY ARE MAXIMIZING VALUE ON ACCIDENT WITH THEIR RETARDED PLAY.

So anyway, a K is probably never good. T is maybe not good. 9 is good probably. 4 is good. I'd call and honestly only get aggressive if I made quads.

Pot is huge on the river but we almost certainly have a losing hand at least one way. Are you showing down anyway?

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i was folding the river UI. at least i think i was.