AJ turns straight & flush draws

Chxdgt · #1 02-22-2007, 11:45 PM

Villian is 55/20/2.9 after ~60 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($8.05)
Hero ($13.92)
BB ($9.14)
UTG ($7.62)
MP ($8.91)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.5, 1 fold, Button calls $0.35.

Flop: ($1.05) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, Button calls $0.50.

Turn: ($2.05) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.15, Button calls $1.15.

River: ($4.35) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.2, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $6.55

Since villian is on the button I figured my hand was ahead of villian's range, so I raised, hoping for a fold. Flop is a standard c-bet. The turn gives me straight and flush draws, so I led out again. Obviously, I've got bupkis on the river...

Was I being too optimistic to be this aggressive out of position? Any comments welcome...

SNO FLAKE · #2 02-23-2007, 12:08 AM

meh.. i make it more like 1.50 pre for deception here. Try to keep em guessing that way you can push all in on the flop. Keep em offguard with the most powerful move in NL.

AKQJ · #3 02-23-2007, 03:40 AM

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meh.. i make it more like 1.50 pre

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$1.50 preflop on a $0.05 table?

EMc · #4 02-23-2007, 03:43 AM

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meh.. i make it more like 1.50 pre

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$1.50 preflop on a $0.05 table?

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Yea that makes no sense.

Snoflake I recommend you read the stickies and stuff around here cause your advice tonight has been off.

BevillTheDevil · #5 02-23-2007, 10:51 AM

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meh.. i make it more like 1.50 pre for deception here. Try to keep em guessing that way you can push all in on the flop. Keep em offguard with the most powerful move in NL.

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haha yea reread the stickies

well i think you played it fine you have like 20 outs going into the river but the only thing i dont like is your betting sizes, a little too small IMO...your pre 3bet is ok but post flop make 2/3-pot your standard.

ama0330 · #6 02-23-2007, 11:52 AM

I dont 3bet this preflop because you will never ever get a fold. As far as I remember these stakes are loose as hell and you have basically zero FE preflop.

I think a preflop flat call is fine because villains range is such that we are probably best if we catch an ace, or even a Jack, and Im happy to play it OOP against poor opponents.

As far as your flop bet its got to be bigger because a 1/3 pot bet accomplishes nothing at all. You are essentially bluffing at this point so you want to maximise your FE by making a bigger bet. Still, I think this is a bad plan because it doesnt look like he is folding any time soon.

Given this, I c/c the turn and c/f the river UI.

Preflop you should be thinking "small pot" as you are OOP with not fantastic cards and you should follow up by implementing a small pot plan, i.e. no 3 bet and more check calling than betting. I think that bluffing like this at these stakes, even if done correctly, is probably -EV.

Chxdgt · #7 02-23-2007, 10:15 PM

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I dont 3bet this preflop because you will never ever get a fold. As far as I remember these stakes are loose as hell and you have basically zero FE preflop.

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I probaly wasn't in a good mindset for this situation... this board was extrememly passive for this level, and I'd been picking up dead money and small pots simply by pushing people around. Unfortunately for me, this guy wasn't going anywhere.

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As far as your flop bet its got to be bigger because a 1/3 pot bet accomplishes nothing at all. You are essentially bluffing at this point so you want to maximise your FE by making a bigger bet. Still, I think this is a bad plan because it doesnt look like he is folding any time soon.

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Huh? Unless I'm missing something, the cbet was about half the pot. Granted, this is small for a cbet... typically I cbet in the ballpark of 2/3 to 3/4 the pot, but the pot is already getting large...

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Given this, I c/c the turn and c/f the river UI.

Preflop you should be thinking "small pot" as you are OOP with not fantastic cards and you should follow up by implementing a small pot plan, i.e. no 3 bet and more check calling than betting. I think that bluffing like this at these stakes, even if done correctly, is probably -EV.

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Thanks for the critique... I'll try to pick my spots a little more carefully [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Supwithbates · #8 02-23-2007, 10:54 PM

I think you need to re-evaluate the reasons that you are 3-betting. You shouldn't be reraising unmade, dominatable hands out of position against 55/20s because while you may be out of position, you're missing 60% of flops and in trouble. That being said, you've got a strong hand on the turn, I check/raise allin if you think you've got any fold equity, otherwise I just check/call.

In general, favorable situations for 3-betting OOP without a premium pocket pair are these:
You have position on original raiser
Your hand isn't likely to be dominated
your cards are connected and/or suited
You have a solid table image
Villain has shown an ability to lay hands down.
OR You think you're ahead of villain's range AND have position.

It seems to me like you were saying, "I've got the best hand so let's build a pot." This works in donkaments, it's called restealing, but it's a different concept in deepstack situations and needs to be treated differently when there will be postflop play involved. Playing out of position against a calling station is murder because you never know where you are, and it's easy to be taken off the best hand or build a big pot with a second best hand.

In your situation, you're probably ahead of button's range and your hand is suited. I don't mind 3betting AJ SUITED against some villains, but anyone with a 55 VPIP you should never 3bet out of position without a premium hand, because it makes the hand too difficult to play otherwise.

For me to make this play I'd have to see that villain was something like 25/20 and I knew him to be good enough to laydown his trash to your reraise. Even then I'm calling 95% 3betting 5%