Playing 11s, ready to go 22s?

[k-rag]

Hi guys,

I'm getting back into internet poker after sitting out for about a year. I'm trying to build up enough of a roll to get some side income while going to business school in the fall.

Anyway, I didn't really want to setup a processor deposit account given the instability in processors right now, so a few weeks ago, my buddy shipped me $200 on AP to build up and I signed up for 30% rakeback. I was running & playing pretty bad at the 10NL, and tried out some SNG 11s to take a breather. Anyway I found I was doing better at the small SNGs than at the small cash games.

I started keeping a log this week of my 11s results. I started 2-tabling and went to 4-tabling over the last few days. ROI and ITM% seem about the same between 2 & 4 table, marginally better @ 4-tabling (small sample set tho).

Anyway to the point:

My stats for this week so far:
52 SnGs played, ITM=48%, ROI=22.7%, ROI w/ Rakeback = 25.5%, $2.50/SnG, $2.80/SnG with Rakeback.

I am shooting for 100 SnGs by next week and eventually start adding tables to maximize time spent. Before Party left the US, I was 8-tabling the 25NL cash games pretty profitably. With pushbotting, the SnGs seem well suited to multi-tabling.

My AP account is now at $400. I read the FAQ here, am learning about ICM and am slowly learning to pushbot the late stages, although at the 11s, I'm finding it's often ITM before the stacks even get small enough to start pushbotting, so lacking practice, but when pushbot mode starts, I'm starting to push the more obvious hands / situations and when in doubt I fold. Have yet to get SNGPT. I know I need to eventually.

Given these stats and bankroll, does taking a shot at the 22s make sense?

Or should I wait until I get about 100 11s recorded? Maybe 200 11s? Should I wait until I build up about $600 before moving up?

I want to move up as quickly as possible (I profitably play 3/5 live games normally) but want to treat this BR on AP with respect given the deposit issues.

Thanks!

[Hollandicus]

Your sample size is wayyyy to small to draw any conclusions from.... 500 minimum, 1000 better for SNGs.

I would suggest 50 buy-ins for whichever level you play at, personally use 100 buy-in rule but I'm a conservative nit.

Loads of info on this in the FAQs.

GL building that roll!!
Mark

[Dr_Wonderful]

50 buy ins would be nice, but certainly not necessary at the 22s, if you feel you can beat the 22s you should play them, but you seem to be smoking the 11s and my philosophy is to never kill a heater so I'd stick with those until you got about 30-40 buy ins at the 22s. Your sample size is certainly too small to tell what your true ROI will be but it seems like you're a responsible and smart poker player that knows what games he can beat. In conclusion less than 30 buy ins is a bad idea and 100 buy ins seems very excessive. I'd aim for 30-50 before I moved up depending on how good I thought/knew I was.

[Shaver67]

Taking shots is a personal decision and comes down to risk tolerance- so should you? I have no idea.

As far as stats and bankroll go, both would be inadequate if viewed by conventional guideposts. The long standing roll guideline has been 30-50 buyins, with the games being widely regarded as tougher these days that may be conservative. That said many have climbed the ladder with much thinner margins, so again a question of comfort. 52 SnGs at any ROI > -50% is almost completely irrelevant and as such can make no comment either way as to your readiness.

If it were me I'd play 400+ 11s (w/ a roll over 650) or my roll up to 1k whichever came first and then move.

[professor76]

Hi K-Rag,

Allow me to share personal experience in moving up; from $6.50 to $12 to $24 Turbos on Full Tilt.

Psychologically, I think it is important that you have at least 30 buy-ins for any level. I didn't understand why this figure till I went on a 24-buyin downswing (and recovered) in December last year

Also there might be some subtle differences in gameplay between levels. Not often noticeable but there are. Eg: Full Tilt $12 turbos seem to be tighter than $24 Turbos which seem to have more LAG-loose aggressive players. Took some time getting used to the styles.

So I mixed $24 and $12 games before full transition to playing exclusively at one level.

(But I ran bad and now back to $12, rebuilding bankroll [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img])

Hope this helps.

[k-rag]

Hi guys, thanks for all of the advice. I took the advice to keep on grinding along at the 11s, and it's been good so far. Seeing more of the "non-intutive" pushbot situations now. Went on a little bit of a heater with several 4-table sets going 3 of 4 wins and a cash at the other table. I had a nice little $25 MTT finish, just missing the final table in the AP $7k gtd to help the BR. It's now at about $625 from $200 earlier this week. Will keep grinding away on the 11s until I get the Shaver67 suggested $1000 then will move to the 22s.

Stats are now 81 SNG, ITM 49.38%, ROI = $33, ROI w/ Rakeback = $36.1, $3.97/SnG including Rakeback. Still way too small a sample set, but happy to be keeping the trend going at least. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks everyone for the advice - this is a great board!

[Mingdu]

When you do your set of 4 have one of them at the higher level ... then move to two ...

no need to make a big jump all at once.

[terrellk11]

I play a lot of sngs at AP (about 2k over the last 2 months) and can tell you that the level of play is much higher at the $22 level than at the $11 tables as there are a lot of regulars who play relatively solid at the $22s. Even if you can handle the jump in oppositin, Moving up with just $400 is just asking to get broke as even a good player can have a bad run that would swallow that bankroll up in a heartbeat.

The $11 tables at AP are as soft as you can find online these days. Stick with them until you're up to at least $800 or $1000. Then start to experiment with the $22s.

[DuderinoAB]

AP is a complete donkfest for STTs...too bad you can't play more than 7.

[terrellk11]

Only 7 STTs allowed, but can add some 2 or 3 table tourneys onto that.