IQ versus effort

[Stuey]

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then add the fact that they are utterly fearless and you have a dangerous human being who operates wayyyy outside what "smart" people can comprehend.

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I am not sure I can speak for "smart" people I am average to below average and what you just described sounds like a psychopath. People like me let these people have their way often just to get out of their way. They have not outsmarted us they just want things we are not willing to fight them for. They are easy to spot they fool no one but themselves.

My IQ is average my effort is high my success is average because I can't exploit every opportunity I see. I just can't.

[limon]

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then add the fact that they are utterly fearless and you have a dangerous human being who operates wayyyy outside what "smart" people can comprehend.

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I am not sure I can speak for "smart" people I am average to below average and what you just described sounds like a psychopath. People like me let these people have their way often just to get out of their way. They have not outsmarted us they just want things we are not willing to fight them for. They are easy to spot they fool no one but themselves.

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there is no duobt many elite advantage players have psychological problems but then again so do many ditch diggers. in my experience the top level advantage players do very little fighting. most are syrupy sweet and the flies just buzz to them. remember THEY ARE THE CASINO. casinos dont fight people. if youre giving them things you dont want then you dont want money or success, which isnt necessarily bad...see you in tibet!

[Stuey]

What would you be doing in tibet?

[illusionS]

Did anyone even read the article?

The point they're making is that being barraged by "you're so smart" you're entire childhood results in you relying solely on your natural abilities. Any failure or arduos task is then tangent proof that you're not "so smart" and that you're natural abilities can't hack it. As a result these kids then avoid anything that requires persistent effort or any situations where failure is a real threat. This sort of repeated behavior effs up their brain chemistry.

[disjunction]

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The point they're making is that being barraged by "you're so smart" you're entire childhood results in you relying solely on your natural abilities. Any failure or arduos task is then tangent proof that you're not "so smart" and that you're natural abilities can't hack it. As a result these kids then avoid anything that requires persistent effort or any situations where failure is a real threat. This sort of repeated behavior effs up their brain chemistry.

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That's a good summary, thanks. I do find the experiment that I quoted in the OP a bit counterintuitive. I would think at some point that a person who thinks they have an aptitude would at least *try* something harder, even if they then give up easier. I wonder if the fact that the feedback was given by females had something to do with this. Once a kid is praised, he doesn't want to risk disappointing the praiser with a successive failure. I wonder what would happen with no adult hovering around, or even a male researcher.

There is one other thing that can be going on too. When you take a kid, and reward him/her for something the kid likes (like drawing a picture or something), the kid then actually likes the activity less. Praise is a form of reward. I'm sure Dweck addresses these points, but it's not in the article.

[illusionS]

Yeah I'm not convinced that it's conclusive by the article, but it is possible that a lot more research has been done than what is talked about.

The interesting thing for me was the different brain chemistry between the persistent people. How their brain tells them, "keep working at it, there's happy juice ahead." As opposed to the lazy brain saying "eff all that work man, 7-11 is having a sale on cases of happy juice."

The researchers posit that these compliments result in kids never being persistent in anything, and therefore their brains get wired differently to hate hard work and promote lazyness. Again, I'm not entirely convinced, but it sure does make a lot of sense.

[PoppinFresh]

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limon, I have been struck by how how smart the best poker players are. disjunction, some of this stuff is used in PUA like someone might say to the girl there with "i love how you are so fun loving and adventurous".

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imo, elite GAMBLERS exist in the super genius realm. many people call them hustlers. thats ok if you realize what they really are is walking casinos/nonstop advantage players/ninja grade scam artists. think of how many millions of people say to themselves i wish i could just play cards and golf all day and how few actually accomplish that. then add the fact that there is NO way to work your way upo without having the ability, no way to have your daddy promote you and no way to get an elite education that moves you to the front of the pack. then add the fact that they are utterly fearless and you have a dangerous human being who operates wayyyy outside what "smart" people can comprehend.

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meh, it really depends on what you mean by super genius. They're likely genius at what they do, but as far as having this carry over to other parts of life I would disagree.

For example, the guy who is the best at picking up girls in the world could be considered a super genius because he is the best at what he does, but that doesn't mean he's a genius in any other area of life.

[Dilznoofus]

Don't mean to hijack, but can any of you knowledgeable people here direct me toward a site that administers a legitimate IQ test? I've never taken one and have wondered for a long time how I would score.

[limon]

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Don't mean to hijack, but can any of you knowledgeable people here direct me toward a site that administers a legitimate IQ test? I've never taken one and have wondered for a long time how I would score.

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i took an unofficial version of the test at age 18 and scored 150, then a decade later i took the wais III. it was administered by a psychologist. i think that is the only way it can be considered legitimate. my score was 155 so that dude that said "meh" to my last post can blow my giant erect e-schmeckel.

[limon]

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limon, I have been struck by how how smart the best poker players are. disjunction, some of this stuff is used in PUA like someone might say to the girl there with "i love how you are so fun loving and adventurous".

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imo, elite GAMBLERS exist in the super genius realm. many people call them hustlers. thats ok if you realize what they really are is walking casinos/nonstop advantage players/ninja grade scam artists. think of how many millions of people say to themselves i wish i could just play cards and golf all day and how few actually accomplish that. then add the fact that there is NO way to work your way upo without having the ability, no way to have your daddy promote you and no way to get an elite education that moves you to the front of the pack. then add the fact that they are utterly fearless and you have a dangerous human being who operates wayyyy outside what "smart" people can comprehend.

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meh, it really depends on what you mean by super genius. They're likely genius at what they do, but as far as having this carry over to other parts of life I would disagree.

For example, the guy who is the best at picking up girls in the world could be considered a super genius because he is the best at what he does, but that doesn't mean he's a genius in any other area of life.

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meh, by your logic einstein and warren buffet could have changed places at any point and done just as well. even super geniuses need to choose a path. and part of their genius is tghat they do...early.