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#1
02-21-2007, 04:29 PM
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Re: Overpair on the Turn vs TAG
[ QUOTE ]
In limit hold'em if you fold an overpair and the board hasnt completed a draw and there are 3 or less players in the pot, there usually was a mistake made. [/ QUOTE ] ?!?!? [ QUOTE ] I like the flop, but the turn I dont see the point of the bet. [/ QUOTE ] We can question Hero's flop three-bet although I think it is fine. But it is debatable. However, I don't see how if you like the flop three-bet you can possibly think it is OK to check the turn 3-handed with a pocket pair that is very vulnerable to overcards. 
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#2
02-21-2007, 05:35 PM
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Re: Overpair on the Turn vs TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] In limit hold'em if you fold an overpair and the board hasnt completed a draw and there are 3 or less players in the pot, there usually was a mistake made. [/ QUOTE ] ?!?!? [ QUOTE ] I like the flop, but the turn I dont see the point of the bet. [/ QUOTE ] We can question Hero's flop three-bet although I think it is fine. But it is debatable. However, I don't see how if you like the flop three-bet you can possibly think it is OK to check the turn 3-handed with a pocket pair that is very vulnerable to overcards. [/ QUOTE ] Well its kind of a backword line of when the pot gets big try to win it right away. Except when the pot gets big and you can confidantly expect no one will fold and your hand is either slightly ahead or way behind get to showdown as cheap as possible. It is highly unlikely either villains will fold at this point but because of the pot size and position of the villain in position he has great incentive to jam with weaker hands then yours. There is one card to come with an overpair that you will only charge others to see and not fold. The pot is large enough to see a river but additional bets are not +ev in isolation so minimize additional monies and get to showdown. I guess another way of putting it is you are actually charging yourself with additional bets. Especially if most outs will hurt you and you might already be behind its kinda like drawing to an ignorant straight or weak flush. Check and call turn because the pot is huge and check and call the river if you hit that weak draw.
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#3
02-21-2007, 08:01 PM
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Re: Overpair on the Turn vs TAG
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when the pot gets big and you can confidantly expect no one will fold and your hand is either slightly ahead or way behind get to showdown as cheap as possible. [/ QUOTE ] Three-way here in a big pot, as you say, your primary goal should not be seeing a cheap showdown. It should be betting for value/protecting your hand. You cannot risk giving a free card here even if you risk getting raised when you bet. [ QUOTE ] It is highly unlikely either villains will fold at this point [/ QUOTE ] You don't know that. CO is less likely to fold granted. But SB could have peeled with lord knows what (perhaps as little as a backdoor draw). He may have as little as one overcard and will fold to your bet. But don't give him a free card here. And if he makes an improper call those times he is drawing thin and not getting proper odds so be it. That is fine. [ QUOTE ] but because of the pot size and position of the villain in position he has great incentive to jam with weaker hands then yours [/ QUOTE ] This is very villain dependent. Against many villains, when the turn blanks off like this you are not getting raised by a worse hand and can safely fold. But sometimes you will need to suck it up and call down (and many of those times you will be beat, but that's poker). Still, that's no excuse for not betting the turn with an vulnerable overpair after three-betting the flop and seizing intiative in the hand.
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#4
02-21-2007, 08:35 PM
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Re: Overpair on the Turn vs TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] when the pot gets big and you can confidantly expect no one will fold and your hand is either slightly ahead or way behind get to showdown as cheap as possible. [/ QUOTE ] Three-way here in a big pot, as you say, your primary goal should not be seeing a cheap showdown. It should be betting for value/protecting your hand. You cannot risk giving a free card here even if you risk getting raised when you bet. [ QUOTE ] It is highly unlikely either villains will fold at this point [/ QUOTE ] You don't know that. CO is less likely to fold granted. But SB could have peeled with lord knows what (perhaps as little as a backdoor draw). He may have as little as one overcard and will fold to your bet. But don't give him a free card here. And if he makes an improper call those times he is drawing thin and not getting proper odds so be it. That is fine. [ QUOTE ] but because of the pot size and position of the villain in position he has great incentive to jam with weaker hands then yours [/ QUOTE ] This is very villain dependent. Against many villains, when the turn blanks off like this you are not getting raised by a worse hand and can safely fold. But sometimes you will need to suck it up and call down (and many of those times you will be beat, but that's poker). Still, that's no excuse for not betting the turn with an vulnerable overpair after three-betting the flop and seizing intiative in the hand. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this noils down to two questions: Do you think we are ahead on the turn more than 50% of the time? What range do you think villain cold called 2 bets cold and a reraise?
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